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606 lines
19 KiB
606 lines
19 KiB
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 12 Aug
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2009</title>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>12 Aug 2009</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Yves, Davy, Erik, Silvia, Michael, Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>Jack</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Erik</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Silvia</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1. ADMIN</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">2. UC & REQUIREMENTS</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">3. SPECIFICATION</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">AOB</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 12 August
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2009</p>
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<p class='phone'>aacc is silvia</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1. ADMIN</h3>
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<p class='phone'>* Roll call</p>
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<p class='phone'>regrets from Guillaume and Conrad</p>
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<p class='phone'>* PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 15
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& 22 July 2009 telecon:</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>* ACTION-92: Erik and Raphael to coordinate
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the writing of papers (ongoing ? re-raise around 15/09/09)</p>
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<h3 id="item02">2. UC & REQUIREMENTS</h3>
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<p class='phone'>* ACTION-68: Raphael to ask the Media
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Annotations WG to review our document</p>
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<p class='phone'>there are actions on the MA WG chair - Raphael
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will follow up</p>
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<p class='phone'>* To be discussed: Live Streaming UC (see Mail
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Silvia ? <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jul/0028.html)">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jul/0028.html)</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> I will also ask
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this Friday at the HCG telecon</p>
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<p class='phone'>there are actually two questions:</p>
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<p class='phone'>* procedural question - how to extend the use
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cases document</p>
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<p class='phone'>* technical discussion</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> likes the extension, but
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we need to clarify<br />
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... difference between query and hash<br />
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... need to have a complete specification<br />
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... procedure: just write the specification and commit
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it</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write specification for
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streaming use case [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-94
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- Write specification for streaming use case [on Silvia
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Pfeiffer - due 2009-08-19].</p>
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<p class='phone'>general agreement to the use case</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> did you have a
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mobile use case to it?<br />
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... there may be additional requirements around requirements on
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resources for media addressing<br />
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... mobile area is a good selling point for media fragment
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use<br />
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... I will keep this in mind an highlight it if we need more
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requirements around this</p>
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<h3 id="item03">3. SPECIFICATION</h3>
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<p class='phone'>3.1 Syntax: (Yves)</p>
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<p class='phone'>* ACTION-49: Yves to Draft the HTTP-Range
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syntax for different units</p>
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<p class='phone'>(completing all the syntax for the two way
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handshake) (ongoing ? re-raise around 15/08/09, after IETF
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Meeting)</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to review the new UC written
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by Silvia and check whether it will cover a mobile usage
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-95
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- Review the new UC written by Silvia and check whether it will
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cover a mobile usage [on Michael Hausenblas - due
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2009-08-19].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> reports on IETF meeting and
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extension of HTTP-Range syntax</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribe: Silvia</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> progress is made and once
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it's agreed, it should be ratified by IANA</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> scribenick:
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silvia</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> have more info by the end
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of the month</p>
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<p class='phone'>(re-raise around 30/08/09)</p>
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<p class='phone'>* ACTION-93: Michael to revisit the TC and see
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which are affected by the temporal-optional-comma-decision</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> was discussion on
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temporal-optional-comma-decision finalised?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jul/0038.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jul/0038.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Franck made a counter-proposal</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> the trailing comma is not
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giving us anything useful<br />
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... I am fine with this proposal</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> we are discussion
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Frank's proposal: remove case 2 and 4 which are redondant</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> happy with this proposal
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- it removes the option to specify the same case in two
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different ways</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 with this
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proposal</p>
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<p class='phone'>Yves is happy to change the grammar in the
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specification</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p><a name=
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"action03" id="action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to make change to
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temporal-optional-comma specification [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-96
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- Make change to temporal-optional-comma specification [on Yves
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Lafon - due 2009-08-19].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>we now have working group agreement on this
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specification</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='phone'>Yves will reply to Franck</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: the
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working group agrees to the temporal-optional-comma
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specification proposed by Franck</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'>3.2 UA Server HTTP Communication
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(Conrad/Raphael)</p>
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<p class='phone'>* ACTION-69: Conrad to draw a representation
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of the general structure of</p>
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<p class='phone'>a media resource, for streamable formats
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(ongoing ? re-raise around 01/09/09, when having had full
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discussion)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> ongoing</p>
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<p class='phone'>raphael will follow up on this thread</p>
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<p class='phone'>4. TEST CASES: (Michael)</p>
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<p class='phone'>* See: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>TC0002:</cite> empty time segment -
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npt</p>
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<p class='phone'>empty time segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>e.g. #t=0,0</p>
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<p class='phone'>416, would yield an empty resource, hence
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client must have erred</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: TC0002
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is approved</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>TC0003:</cite> empty space segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>empty space segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>e.g. #xywh=0,0,0,0</p>
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<p class='phone'>416, would yield an empty resource, hence
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client must have erred</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: TC0003
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is approved</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>TC0004:</cite> empty space segment -
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aspect</p>
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<p class='phone'>empty space segment - aspect</p>
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<p class='phone'>#aspect=0:0</p>
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<p class='phone'>416, would yield an empty resource, hence
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client must have erred</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Yves; no
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restriction on the values except they must be integers</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... many ratio out
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there already, and more can be proposed later on</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 for current
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proposal</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> capturing all the
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restrictions in the syntax itself is not necessary</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: TC0004
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is approved</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'>--</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>TC0005:</cite> empty track segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>empty track segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>e.g. #track="" (I think)</p>
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<p class='phone'>416, would yield an empty resource, hence
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client must have erred</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> should it not rather mean
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the whole resource?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> I agree TC0005 is
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similar to TC0001</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> selection is based on
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nothing defined, so it is similar to TC0001 and should be
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all</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> is there an
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implementation yet?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Michael: search for
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implementation in the real world of the track thing. Does that
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exist at all?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> don't think so<br />
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... it's more a theoretical experiment right now</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> if there are none,
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we are free to specify</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> For consistency, I
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would prefer to have the same behavior than TC0001</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> postpone ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> I hesitate to
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propose to resolve it without more empirical experience</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> We can look at what
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DVD players do ... when a command parameter ask to play a dvd
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with an empty track name</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... my guess is
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that the default language is used ... and not err</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> let's look at it from a
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programmer pov - if I composed it through a tick list and no
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tracks were ticked, I'd probably expect all tracks to be
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delivered</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Correction, re
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TC0005</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Proposal: 200, the
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entire representation is returned</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>--</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>TC0006:</cite> empty named segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>e.g. #id="" (I think)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>currently:</cite> 416, would yield an
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empty resource, hence client must have erred</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> we should apply the same
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logic as with TC0005</p>
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<p class='phone'>general agreement</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Proposal: 200, the
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entire representation is returned</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Raphael notes that
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Silvia abstain and does not +1 on TC005</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Raphael notes that
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Silvia abstain and does not +1 on TC0006 (oups)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> we should probably
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revisit 07</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> as the definition of
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"empty" is different depending on the axis</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Yves, TC0007?
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Really?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Should we add more
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Test Cases when there is an ID (or a Track) ... but not defined
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in the video</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> is considering the
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comparison between empty id and and id that doesn't exist<br />
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... but they are different</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> we should add a test case
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for non-existing ID<br />
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... but when no ID is specified, it should refer to the full
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resource</p>
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<p class='phone'>--</p>
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<p class='phone'>revisit TC0007</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> since #t=, now refers to
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the full resource, we should revisit TC0007</p>
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<p class='phone'>#t=,&id='ID0'</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> What about if you
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replace your input by: "#xywh=0,0,0,0&t=,"</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> should now refer to the
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named fragment ID0</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> For now, can we
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change the status of TC0007 from approved to un-reviewed ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Proposal:</cite> 200, return
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representation for named fragment ID0</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... but keep the
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previous agreement in the record</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> can we add the new
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proposal then?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> adding
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TC10mwith #t=0,0&id='ID0'</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> add a new test case 10,
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which captures the former intention of TC0007</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> and return 416
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for TC10</p>
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<p class='phone'>this new test case will read
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#t=0,0&id='ID0'</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 for michael
|
|
proposal to add TC0010 ... I have also used before the example
|
|
with an empty space segment</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> same for non
|
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existing track name ... non existing id</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> so we need TC0011
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and TC0012</p>
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<p class='phone'>adding a new test case TC0011 for non-existing
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id</p>
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<p class='phone'>e.g. #id="none"</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> RESOLUTION: TC0005
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|
is approved</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> RESOLUTION: TC0006
|
|
is approved</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>reply:</cite> 416, would yield an empty
|
|
resource, hence client must have erred</p>
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|
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: TC0005
|
|
is approved</strong><br />
|
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... TC0006 is approved<br />
|
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... TC0007 to be changed as discussed<br />
|
|
... TC010, TC011, TC012 to be added as discussed</p>
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|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> we have run out of
|
|
time<br />
|
|
... thanks everyone</p>
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|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> great job,
|
|
silvia!</p>
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|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1 to Yves
|
|
proposal!!!!</p>
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|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ;)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>yves</cite>> bye, zakim</p>
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|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> :-)</p>
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|
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|
<h3 id="item04">AOB</h3>
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|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> none</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> meeting
|
|
adjourned</p>
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|
</div>
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|
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|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to review
|
|
the new UC written by Silvia and check whether it will cover a
|
|
mobile usage [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write
|
|
specification for streaming use case [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to make
|
|
change to temporal-optional-comma specification [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
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<br />
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[End of minutes]<br />
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<hr />
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<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/08/12 13:04:29 $
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</address>
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</body>
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</html>
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