Another abandoned server code base... this is kind of an ancestor of taskrambler.
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<title>W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face
meeting, Amsterdam, Day 2</h1>
<h2>11 Jul 2006</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia,
George, Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale,
Alessio, Massimo, Roberto, Chris</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>SusanneBoll</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Thomas, anadiotis, jacco</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Demos by Patrizia &amp;
Giovanni</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Multimedia Annotation Exercise
Session</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">MMSem XG roadmap</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">next f2f</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>
<p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>
<h3 id="item01">Demos by Patrizia &amp; Giovanni</h3>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; scribe: Thomas</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>alessio</cite>&gt; hi all</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Hi alessio</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pasquale</cite>&gt; hi all, from
Naples, Italy</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; are the slides
online?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; participants:
Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia, George,
Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale, Alessio,
Massimo</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; hi all</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Hi Massimo</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia presenting
slides at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/mmsem-member-presentation-pat3.ppt">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/mmsem-member-presentation-pat3.ppt</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia explaining
links with MUSCLE, mm ontology requirements effort etc</p>
<p class='phone'>Patrizia explains the 4M (MultiMedia Metadata
Management) Infrastructure</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>vasileios</cite>&gt; massimo, which
software do you use for the extraction of MPEG-7
descriptors?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Hi Massimo: Yes, the
irc log is public, we can either edit the minutes later to
ensure the context of your texts are properly specified, or we
can send it to the mailing list so that we don't have to dig it
out from the minutes later.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; we have extended
emir and mpeg-7 encoder</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; rssagent, pointer</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; massimo, see above
for the log</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Hi Jeff/Jacco,
ok</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Other resources,
slides, minutes etc at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/#Meetings">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/#Meetings</a></p>
<p class='phone'>Raphael asking Patrizia: can you give an
example of how to use the Algorithms Thesaurus?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Patrizia:</cite> Algorithms Thesaurus
used to establish provenance information<br />
... ... to define formal processes that include the algorithms
used</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff asks about the
expressive power wrt swrl and owl that patrizia needs</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; jeff: what expressive
power do you need from owl and swrl</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia: not thought
very deeply about this, but we need some formal way to express
rules</p>
<p class='phone'>there is not yet a schedule for when the work
on the algorithms ontology will be finished</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>&gt; A
question to Massimo:: Can you give an example of the existing
relations in the Algorithms ontology ?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; we thought of a
sort of definition on how algorithms can be combined
together</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; on the base of the
multimedia object, the problem and the possible solutions</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: asks what kind
of rules you need, for example, do you need disjunction in the
head, or do you need the vocabulary of the ontology in the
rules</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; an example (thought
now): suppose we need to obtain the contours of objects in an
image and locate salient features (more specifically, how it is
possible to extract features and locate a fracture on a Xray
image)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia: not sure,
but we assume the rules are built on top of the ontology</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: what are the
rules used for?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia: I'm not
sure yet: we've just started</p>
<p class='phone'>Giovanni presents DBin, on the DBin website
there is a screen demo to follow</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; DBin: <a href=
"http://dbin.org">http://dbin.org</a></p>
<p class='phone'>DBin provides brainlets: environments for
specific data/tasks that customize the user interface</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Patrizia:</cite> can people modify the
ontology?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> creators of brainlets
define the ontologies, you can install/deinstall ontologies</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> please show how to
annotate a photo</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> you can use any
property given by the ontologies of the brainlet to add
annotations to resources</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; -meeting_room offline
...</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; we're calling back in
...</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; ok</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisT</cite>&gt; nice</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Having short coffee
break</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisT</cite>&gt; ok</p>
<h3 id="item02">Multimedia Annotation Exercise Session</h3>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael explains set
up of the annotation session.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; I was out for minute,
can you send the URL again?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Mostly personal
photos of beaches, anything, any tool, any vocabulary is
allowed</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff, no url has been
sent yet</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; World Cup photos:
<a href=
"http://www.apa-images.at/cms/site/EN/breakingnews.html;jsessionid=agCHvRUiTwE7">
http://www.apa-images.at/cms/site/EN/breakingnews.html;jsessionid=agCHvRUiTwE7</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; World cup videos:
<a href=
"http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&amp;article=368313&amp;lng=2">
http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&amp;article=368313&amp;lng=2</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Video: <a href=
"http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChannel.aspx?storyid=2ba9545293e136702fab402c94af125ea8560bc1">
http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChannel.aspx?storyid=2ba9545293e136702fab402c94af125ea8560bc1</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Photos: <a href=
"http://photos.reuters.com/Pictures/default.aspx">http://photos.reuters.com/Pictures/default.aspx</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Video Clip:
<a href="http://www.rap2k.com/clip-1218-mas-que-nada-feat-black-eyed-peas-sergio-mendes.html#open">
http://www.rap2k.com/clip-1218-mas-que-nada-feat-black-eyed-peas-sergio-mendes.html#open</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Lyrics: <a href=
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Que_Nada">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Que_Nada</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Official Web Site:
<a href=
"http://www.blackeyedpeas.com">http://www.blackeyedpeas.com</a>
and <a href=
"http://www.brasil66.com/">http://www.brasil66.com/</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Temporary URLs of
media files: <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; thanks massimo</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; massimo, you can
phone in, we will just mute you</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; ok, i'll retry!</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; there is now a
Beach ontology at: <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; for annotating the
personal photos</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Massimo, please,
DCC me the file</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; you're flooding</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; lunch break</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; see you later
(sorry for the previous flooding)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>anadiotis</cite>&gt; Sample RDF output
: <a href=
"http://www.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=11026577@N00&amp;tags=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11026577@N00/187187881&amp;format=rss2">
http://www.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=11026577@N00&amp;tags=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11026577@N00/187187881&amp;format=rss2</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; my annotations are
at</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try.rdf</a>,
<a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try2.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try2.rdf</a>,
<a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/ct.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/ct.rdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>anadiotis</cite>&gt; More sample RDF
output : <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~anadioti/RDF/rembrandt.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~anadioti/RDF/rembrandt.rdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>vasileios</cite>&gt; massimo, which
annotation tool have you used for the extraction of the
massimo.mp7 file?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; our 4M</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>vasileios</cite>&gt; massimo, is this
tool publicly available?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; it's developed
under the MUSCLE NoE, so i don't know the copyright policy</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>vasileios</cite>&gt; so, I assume
there is no currently available version for download and
testing</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; the thing we are
thinking to propose to MUSCLE is if we can give an URI where
people can connect and upload multimedia object, when MUSCLE
will finish we would like to open the code</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>&gt; Massimo,
does '4M' support other descriptors than MPEG-7 ones ?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; not at the
moment</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; we started the
developement less than one year ago, we would like to add some
more features</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ALL: go on <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>&gt; have you
used the MPEG-7 XM software for '4M'?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; no</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; we started with
vizir (emir) and mpeg7encoder, it's all written in java</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; we compiled XM6.1
on a windows pc (terrible experience) and we've use it to
compare the results</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>vasileios</cite>&gt; massimo, i can
see from the massimo.mp7 file that the descriptors have been
extracted for the whole image (i.e. not region-based). Is this
right?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; but 4M extracts
more features than XM now: some less for images, a lot more for
audio, some for video</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; yes you're
right</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; that is the next
module under developing</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'>my "handmade" rdf file is at <a href=
"http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~franz/manual.rdf">http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~franz/manual.rdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff,
&lt;rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG"/&gt; should
be &lt;rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG"&gt;</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; without the slash in
the end</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Jeff, all RDF files
are at: <a href=
"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/annotations/">
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/annotations/</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; yours too</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; thanks</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff, can you put a
real url to an image in your rdf:about</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; ok</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; jacco, done</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>anadiotis</cite>&gt; Round table -
details about what everyone did and how</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>anadiotis</cite>&gt; Vassilis and
Ioannis used PhotoStuff</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; (i can't see the
last rdf)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; scribe: anadiotis</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Limitations:</cite> no low-level feature
extraction, no automatic segmentation</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff, we get an
access denied on your RDF page</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; it should be fine
now</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; ?</p>
<p class='phone'>Could have used M-OntomatAnotizer, that deals
with issues, but not yet publicly available</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Thomas:</cite> tried to use PhotoStuff +
Protege</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Issues:</cite> could not load ontology
to Protege</p>
<p class='phone'>Did manual annotations..</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Massimo:</cite> obtained MPEG-7 using
4M</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; RDF: foafer, image
annotator (notepad to add the coordinates, and google to
check). MPEG-7: 4M. OWL: Swoogle</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; george used 2
different methods: uploaded picture to flickr, added regional
annotations.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; Also added URL of
picture.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; Then created RSS of
this.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; Template Newsml of
picture, found news codes, sample file -&gt; converter for
RDF</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacco:</cite> tried to upload WordNet -
crashed Protege</p>
<p class='phone'>Then used Raphael's beach ontology</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> created beach ontology
with Protege</p>
<p class='phone'>Then used it with PhotoStuff to annotate the
pictures</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; (opps SWOOP2.3 for
owl not swoogle)</p>
<p class='phone'>PhotoStuff does not support properties</p>
<p class='phone'>(it does in the latest version - Raphael was
using a previous one)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Lynda:</cite> could not produce an
RDF</p>
<p class='phone'>tried to find all the ontologies</p>
<p class='phone'>also tried with NewsML, but could not find the
NewsCodes</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jacco: I used
<a href="http://www.mindswap.org/2003/PhotoStuff/webstarts/PhotoStuff-3.33/PhotoStuff-20060531.zip">
http://www.mindswap.org/2003/PhotoStuff/webstarts/PhotoStuff-3.33/PhotoStuff-20060531.zip</a></p>
<p class='phone'>syntax was difficult to use too</p>
<p class='phone'>Giovanni + Christian : set up environment,
fixed broken soccer ontology, loaded ontologies</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovanni: set up an
environment in dbin.org to annote images</p>
<p class='phone'>Giovanni + Christian : Found a simplified
MPGE-7 ontology</p>
<p class='phone'>Inserted new images by navigating the ontology
and creating new 'image' instance</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; added line to say
place was a geo:spatialthing</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; The owl-full bug is
fixed, see</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> also used geographic
ontology<br />
... in the end everything is exported in a single RDF file</p>
<p class='phone'>wrap-up by Raphael : everyone went for
images</p>
<p class='phone'>initially at least</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> why is precise
region-drawing important? Aren't most use cases covered by
rectangle selction?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ioannis:</cite> Precise region marking
helps achieving better feature extraction</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> purpose of the hands-on
exercise was to show issues with ontology-based
annotation<br />
... discussion on the roadmap follows</p>
<h3 id="item03">MMSem XG roadmap</h3>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Music use case: id of
track, diff perf. of the same song; different encodings</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; id3 tags, CDDB data,
musicbrainz</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; classification of
music on rythm,tempo,gentre, which ontologies to use</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; lyrics: paper about
finding music based on lyrics</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; thierry: there is a
more or less standard linguistic annotation scheme</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; (by us/ISO)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; link text of lyrics
to audio? manual/automatic</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; or use mpeg-7
linguistic scheme</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; thierry was
talking</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; now giovanni</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; thanks</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: we first
need to describe the problem of the use case, than the general
solution. only highlight specific tools as example</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; thomas: what is the
intention of listing these problems, this is not in the context
of the real use case?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; What is the added
value of SW?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: Yes, this
will be key to all use cases</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas: yes, so we
need a real scenario in which these problems occur</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: we can be
creative and can reuse all relevant RDF out there on the web,
as long as it fits in a real scenario</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovanni: music
browsing, with intelligent "next" button, or locating
scenario</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; we can show how the
problems listed so far relate to the use case</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas:music browsing
is too generic, need a real specific scenario</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; patrizia: is a tool
from vienna that does similar stuff</p><a name="action01" id=
"action01"></a>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
<strong>ACTION:</strong> patrizia to find pointer to this tool
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Rapahel: structured
annotation of the lyrics?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thierry: we could do
that, but we are not so strong in classifaction</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; looking at <a href=
"http://freedb.org">http://freedb.org</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jacco:</cite> aim is to produce readable
documents, so compact and specific use-cases are required</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; agreed</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Low level feature
extraction use case:</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; which use case are we
talking about?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; current tools
represent results of extraction in XML/MPEG7, why do we need
RDF/OWL?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Jeff, this is use
case <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Christian, there is
overlap with Massimo's use case</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Christian: there is
overlap with Massimo's use case</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; So we should provide
a link</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; thanks</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Advantages of RDF:
combine with background knowledge, bootstrap and infer more
information</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Patrizia:we also have
the semantics of the algorithm</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: two issues:
we must have use cases that cover a broad range of languages
and vocabularies</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; not all use cases
should be based on mpeg-7, not all shou</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; not all use cases
should be based on mpeg-7, not all should only use RDF, but
also different flavours of OWL</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; otherwise we cannot
show interoperability</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: we should
use many metadata standards, not just three</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; all agree</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Ioannis: we need
spatio-temporal relations to be supported</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: spatio
temporal relations are, from a language perspective, just
relations, so there is not a issue</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; the problem could be
on the reasoning level</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chalaschek</cite>&gt; yes the problem
is on the reasoning level</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: I agree with
Vassilis, can do something even if spatio-temporal reasoning is
not supported</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Unstructured tagging
use case: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; show limitation of
tags, using tags across modalities or applications</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; show first efforts to
bring more structure to tagging, show advantages and common
approaches</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; show how it is
possible to use SW technology to use, for example picasa tags
in flickr, or from blogging app to another</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; thomas: I agree</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; other issues are
navigation between tags, clustering etc</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jacco: maybe reuse
existing flickr2rdf converters etc</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; make use case that
works cross modality</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Next use case: News
(<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05)">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05)</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: I will work
with people of the newsml/iptc community</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; use case should show
what you can do more if you convert all current vocabs. to RDF
and link to other material already out there</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; including: cross
modality search on news images and text</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; recognize different
version of the same story</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; make explicit links
among different versions</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; patrizia: should
speach be added?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; reuse exisiting
metdatda, convert to RDF</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Massimo (by SMS):
audio is not only music</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; all agree</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; who is here?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael puts
Massimo's use case sent yesterday on the beamer</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: is this a
representation problem, massimo?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; i was only thinking
of use cases</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; but yes, you're
right raphael, it could be</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; BTW, do we have any
use cases on videos?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Massimo, could you
write this up in terms of a concrete use case? For example one
on e-science, or on image transforms on personal photos</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; news domain and
unstructured tagging deal with video, maybe the music use case
also</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; ok we'll think
about it</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: lets talk
about deadlines</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; We have a teleconf on
the 20th of July, so submit half a page description on the 19th
of July, so we can disccus 5 use cases during the teleconf</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas will be on
vacation but will contact George before</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Skip 3, 16 august
teleconf because of vacations</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; proposal: next
teleconf on 31 august?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; resolved</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jeff</cite>&gt; next teleconfs: 20
July and 31 August?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Vassilis</cite>&gt; have we decided
who is goin to do be the editor of this deliverable?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; no, we will do the
individual use cases first</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: we do not
yet have talked about the structure of the document</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: agrees with
Vassilis, can we use the time left to look ahead?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: we will all
be contributors to the XG notes, but we also need editors</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis volunteers
to be one of the editors</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; obections to Vassilis
being an editor?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Resolved</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Any more
voluteers?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; No, want to see what
the documents are going to look like</p>
<h3 id="item04">next f2f</h3>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; proposal: co-locate
with next ISWC conference in November, Athens, Georgia</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: There are
many other competing events like ruleml, rif, owl2</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Other posibility is
to co-locate with SAMT in Athens, Greece</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; But this will be the
second f2f in Europe</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; could be thougth
the possibility of a videocon too ?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; 5 november is
tutorials only</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/program/dates.htm">http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/program/dates.htm</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rellero_</cite>&gt; could be a good
idea make next f2f in Venice</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>giovanni:</cite> having the f2f coincide
with ISWC workshops/demos may not be a good idea, since people
in the XG will attend the workshops/. Maybe before
ISWC?</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael and Jeff to contact US
partners and propose f2f date and location [recorded in
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: Workshop in
Athens on cultural domain, presence from this XG will be
appreciated</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Vassilis to write proposal on the
agenda for 20 jult teleconf [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; any other
business?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Jeff: we skipt
discussing future deliverables, if any has an idea or
volunteers to be an editor, send mail to public mailing
list</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Chairs close the
meeting and thank all particpants</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; hi all and thank
you!</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rellero_</cite>&gt; see you soon</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pasquale</cite>&gt; bye all</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rellero_</cite>&gt; bye</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>alessio</cite>&gt; see you next time
:)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; scribe: jacco</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> patrizia to find
pointer to this tool [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael and Jeff
to contact US partners and propose f2f date and location
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Vassilis to write
proposal on the agenda for 20 jult teleconf [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
&nbsp;<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.127 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2006/07/11 14:49:06 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/pus/puts/
Succeeded: s/Vasilis/Vassilis/
Found Scribe: Thomas
Inferring ScribeNick: Thomas
Found Scribe: anadiotis
Inferring ScribeNick: anadiotis
Found Scribe: jacco
Inferring ScribeNick: jacco
Scribes: Thomas, anadiotis, jacco
ScribeNicks: Thomas, anadiotis, jacco
Default Present: meeting_room, Vassilis, Jeff_Pan, massimo
Present: Ioannias Vasileios VassilisThomas Raphael Patrizia George Lynda Jacco Giovanni Christian Jeff Pasquale Alessio Massimo Roberto Chris
WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Susanne, Boll)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: &lt;dbooth&gt; Regrets+ SusanneBoll
Regrets: SusanneBoll
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html</a>
Got date from IRC log name: 11 Jul 2006
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: jeff patrizia raphael vassilis
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
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scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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