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<title>W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face
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meeting, Amsterdam, Day 2 -- 11 Jul 2006</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>W3C Multimedia Semantics Incubator Group face to face
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meeting, Amsterdam, Day 2</h1>
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<h2>11 Jul 2006</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia,
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George, Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale,
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Alessio, Massimo, Roberto, Chris</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>SusanneBoll</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Thomas, anadiotis, jacco</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">Demos by Patrizia &
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Giovanni</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">Multimedia Annotation Exercise
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Session</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">MMSem XG roadmap</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">next f2f</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<h3 id="item01">Demos by Patrizia & Giovanni</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> scribe: Thomas</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>alessio</cite>> hi all</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> Hi alessio</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pasquale</cite>> hi all, from
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Naples, Italy</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> are the slides
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online?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> participants:
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Ioannias, Vasileios, VassilisThomas, Raphael, Patrizia, George,
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Lynda, Jacco, Giovanni, Christian, Jeff, Pasquale, Alessio,
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Massimo</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> hi all</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> Hi Massimo</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia presenting
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slides at <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/mmsem-member-presentation-pat3.ppt">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/mmsem-member-presentation-pat3.ppt</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia explaining
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links with MUSCLE, mm ontology requirements effort etc</p>
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<p class='phone'>Patrizia explains the 4M (MultiMedia Metadata
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Management) Infrastructure</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vasileios</cite>> massimo, which
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software do you use for the extraction of MPEG-7
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descriptors?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> Hi Massimo: Yes, the
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irc log is public, we can either edit the minutes later to
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ensure the context of your texts are properly specified, or we
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can send it to the mailing list so that we don't have to dig it
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out from the minutes later.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> we have extended
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emir and mpeg-7 encoder</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> rssagent, pointer</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> massimo, see above
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for the log</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> Hi Jeff/Jacco,
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ok</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Other resources,
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slides, minutes etc at <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/#Meetings">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/#Meetings</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Raphael asking Patrizia: can you give an
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example of how to use the Algorithms Thesaurus?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Patrizia:</cite> Algorithms Thesaurus
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used to establish provenance information<br />
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... ... to define formal processes that include the algorithms
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used</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff asks about the
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expressive power wrt swrl and owl that patrizia needs</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> jeff: what expressive
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power do you need from owl and swrl</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia: not thought
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very deeply about this, but we need some formal way to express
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rules</p>
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<p class='phone'>there is not yet a schedule for when the work
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on the algorithms ontology will be finished</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>> A
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question to Massimo:: Can you give an example of the existing
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relations in the Algorithms ontology ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> we thought of a
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sort of definition on how algorithms can be combined
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together</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> on the base of the
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multimedia object, the problem and the possible solutions</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff: asks what kind
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of rules you need, for example, do you need disjunction in the
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head, or do you need the vocabulary of the ontology in the
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rules</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> an example (thought
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now): suppose we need to obtain the contours of objects in an
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image and locate salient features (more specifically, how it is
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possible to extract features and locate a fracture on a Xray
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image)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia: not sure,
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but we assume the rules are built on top of the ontology</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff: what are the
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rules used for?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia: I'm not
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sure yet: we've just started</p>
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<p class='phone'>Giovanni presents DBin, on the DBin website
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there is a screen demo to follow</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> DBin: <a href=
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"http://dbin.org">http://dbin.org</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>DBin provides brainlets: environments for
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specific data/tasks that customize the user interface</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Patrizia:</cite> can people modify the
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ontology?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> creators of brainlets
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define the ontologies, you can install/deinstall ontologies</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> please show how to
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annotate a photo</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> you can use any
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property given by the ontologies of the brainlet to add
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annotations to resources</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> -meeting_room offline
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...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> we're calling back in
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...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>JeffP</cite>> ok</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>VassilisT</cite>> nice</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Having short coffee
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break</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>VassilisT</cite>> ok</p>
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<h3 id="item02">Multimedia Annotation Exercise Session</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Raphael explains set
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up of the annotation session.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> I was out for minute,
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can you send the URL again?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Mostly personal
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photos of beaches, anything, any tool, any vocabulary is
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allowed</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff, no url has been
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sent yet</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> World Cup photos:
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<a href=
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"http://www.apa-images.at/cms/site/EN/breakingnews.html;jsessionid=agCHvRUiTwE7">
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http://www.apa-images.at/cms/site/EN/breakingnews.html;jsessionid=agCHvRUiTwE7</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> World cup videos:
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<a href=
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"http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=368313&lng=2">
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http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=368313&lng=2</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Video: <a href=
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"http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChannel.aspx?storyid=2ba9545293e136702fab402c94af125ea8560bc1">
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http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoChannel.aspx?storyid=2ba9545293e136702fab402c94af125ea8560bc1</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Photos: <a href=
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"http://photos.reuters.com/Pictures/default.aspx">http://photos.reuters.com/Pictures/default.aspx</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Video Clip:
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<a href="http://www.rap2k.com/clip-1218-mas-que-nada-feat-black-eyed-peas-sergio-mendes.html#open">
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http://www.rap2k.com/clip-1218-mas-que-nada-feat-black-eyed-peas-sergio-mendes.html#open</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Lyrics: <a href=
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"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Que_Nada">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Que_Nada</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Official Web Site:
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<a href=
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"http://www.blackeyedpeas.com">http://www.blackeyedpeas.com</a>
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and <a href=
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"http://www.brasil66.com/">http://www.brasil66.com/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Temporary URLs of
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media files: <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> thanks massimo</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> massimo, you can
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phone in, we will just mute you</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> ok, i'll retry!</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> there is now a
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Beach ontology at: <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> for annotating the
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personal photos</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Massimo, please,
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DCC me the file</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> you're flooding</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> lunch break</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> see you later
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(sorry for the previous flooding)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>anadiotis</cite>> Sample RDF output
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: <a href=
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"http://www.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=11026577@N00&tags=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11026577@N00/187187881&format=rss2">
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http://www.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=11026577@N00&tags=http://www.flickr.com/photos/11026577@N00/187187881&format=rss2</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> my annotations are
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at</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try.rdf</a>,
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<a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try2.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/try2.rdf</a>,
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<a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/ct.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jrvosse/spool/ct.rdf</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>anadiotis</cite>> More sample RDF
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output : <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~anadioti/RDF/rembrandt.rdf">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~anadioti/RDF/rembrandt.rdf</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vasileios</cite>> massimo, which
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annotation tool have you used for the extraction of the
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massimo.mp7 file?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> our 4M</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vasileios</cite>> massimo, is this
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tool publicly available?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> it's developed
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under the MUSCLE NoE, so i don't know the copyright policy</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vasileios</cite>> so, I assume
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there is no currently available version for download and
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testing</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> the thing we are
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thinking to propose to MUSCLE is if we can give an URI where
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people can connect and upload multimedia object, when MUSCLE
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will finish we would like to open the code</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>> Massimo,
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does '4M' support other descriptors than MPEG-7 ones ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> not at the
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moment</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> we started the
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developement less than one year ago, we would like to add some
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more features</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ALL: go on <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>IoannisPratikakis</cite>> have you
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used the MPEG-7 XM software for '4M'?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> no</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> we started with
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vizir (emir) and mpeg7encoder, it's all written in java</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> we compiled XM6.1
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on a windows pc (terrible experience) and we've use it to
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compare the results</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vasileios</cite>> massimo, i can
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see from the massimo.mp7 file that the descriptors have been
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extracted for the whole image (i.e. not region-based). Is this
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right?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> but 4M extracts
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more features than XM now: some less for images, a lot more for
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audio, some for video</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> yes you're
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right</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> that is the next
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module under developing</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
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http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>my "handmade" rdf file is at <a href=
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"http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~franz/manual.rdf">http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~franz/manual.rdf</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff,
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<rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG"/> should
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be <rdf:Description rdf:about="photo:DSC03139.JPG"></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> without the slash in
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the end</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Jeff, all RDF files
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are at: <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/annotations/">
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http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/multimedia/annotations/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> yours too</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> thanks</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff, can you put a
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real url to an image in your rdf:about</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> ?</p>
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|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> ok</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> jacco, done</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
|
|
http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>anadiotis</cite>> Round table -
|
|
details about what everyone did and how</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>anadiotis</cite>> Vassilis and
|
|
Ioannis used PhotoStuff</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> (i can't see the
|
|
last rdf)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> scribe: anadiotis</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Limitations:</cite> no low-level feature
|
|
extraction, no automatic segmentation</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff, we get an
|
|
access denied on your RDF page</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> it should be fine
|
|
now</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Could have used M-OntomatAnotizer, that deals
|
|
with issues, but not yet publicly available</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Thomas:</cite> tried to use PhotoStuff +
|
|
Protege</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Issues:</cite> could not load ontology
|
|
to Protege</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Did manual annotations..</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Massimo:</cite> obtained MPEG-7 using
|
|
4M</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> RDF: foafer, image
|
|
annotator (notepad to add the coordinates, and google to
|
|
check). MPEG-7: 4M. OWL: Swoogle</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>lynda</cite>> george used 2
|
|
different methods: uploaded picture to flickr, added regional
|
|
annotations.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>lynda</cite>> Also added URL of
|
|
picture.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>lynda</cite>> Then created RSS of
|
|
this.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>lynda</cite>> Template Newsml of
|
|
picture, found news codes, sample file -> converter for
|
|
RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacco:</cite> tried to upload WordNet -
|
|
crashed Protege</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Then used Raphael's beach ontology</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> created beach ontology
|
|
with Protege</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Then used it with PhotoStuff to annotate the
|
|
pictures</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> (opps SWOOP2.3 for
|
|
owl not swoogle)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>PhotoStuff does not support properties</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>(it does in the latest version - Raphael was
|
|
using a previous one)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Lynda:</cite> could not produce an
|
|
RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>tried to find all the ontologies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>also tried with NewsML, but could not find the
|
|
NewsCodes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jacco: I used
|
|
<a href="http://www.mindswap.org/2003/PhotoStuff/webstarts/PhotoStuff-3.33/PhotoStuff-20060531.zip">
|
|
http://www.mindswap.org/2003/PhotoStuff/webstarts/PhotoStuff-3.33/PhotoStuff-20060531.zip</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>syntax was difficult to use too</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Giovanni + Christian : set up environment,
|
|
fixed broken soccer ontology, loaded ontologies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> giovanni: set up an
|
|
environment in dbin.org to annote images</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Giovanni + Christian : Found a simplified
|
|
MPGE-7 ontology</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Inserted new images by navigating the ontology
|
|
and creating new 'image' instance</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> added line to say
|
|
place was a geo:spatialthing</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> The owl-full bug is
|
|
fixed, see</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf">
|
|
http://www.csd.abdn.ac.uk/~jpan/w3c/mm-annotation/mm-annotation.rdf</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> also used geographic
|
|
ontology<br />
|
|
... in the end everything is exported in a single RDF file</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>wrap-up by Raphael : everyone went for
|
|
images</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>initially at least</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Giovanni:</cite> why is precise
|
|
region-drawing important? Aren't most use cases covered by
|
|
rectangle selction?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Ioannis:</cite> Precise region marking
|
|
helps achieving better feature extraction</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> purpose of the hands-on
|
|
exercise was to show issues with ontology-based
|
|
annotation<br />
|
|
... discussion on the roadmap follows</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item03">MMSem XG roadmap</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Music use case: id of
|
|
track, diff perf. of the same song; different encodings</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> id3 tags, CDDB data,
|
|
musicbrainz</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> classification of
|
|
music on rythm,tempo,gentre, which ontologies to use</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> lyrics: paper about
|
|
finding music based on lyrics</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> thierry: there is a
|
|
more or less standard linguistic annotation scheme</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> (by us/ISO)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> link text of lyrics
|
|
to audio? manual/automatic</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> or use mpeg-7
|
|
linguistic scheme</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> thierry was
|
|
talking</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> now giovanni</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> thanks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> raphael: we first
|
|
need to describe the problem of the use case, than the general
|
|
solution. only highlight specific tools as example</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> thomas: what is the
|
|
intention of listing these problems, this is not in the context
|
|
of the real use case?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> What is the added
|
|
value of SW?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Raphael: Yes, this
|
|
will be key to all use cases</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Thomas: yes, so we
|
|
need a real scenario in which these problems occur</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> raphael: we can be
|
|
creative and can reuse all relevant RDF out there on the web,
|
|
as long as it fits in a real scenario</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> giovanni: music
|
|
browsing, with intelligent "next" button, or locating
|
|
scenario</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> we can show how the
|
|
problems listed so far relate to the use case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Thomas:music browsing
|
|
is too generic, need a real specific scenario</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> patrizia: is a tool
|
|
from vienna that does similar stuff</p><a name="action01" id=
|
|
"action01"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> patrizia to find pointer to this tool
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Rapahel: structured
|
|
annotation of the lyrics?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Thierry: we could do
|
|
that, but we are not so strong in classifaction</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> looking at <a href=
|
|
"http://freedb.org">http://freedb.org</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jacco:</cite> aim is to produce readable
|
|
documents, so compact and specific use-cases are required</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> agreed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Low level feature
|
|
extraction use case:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> which use case are we
|
|
talking about?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> current tools
|
|
represent results of extraction in XML/MPEG7, why do we need
|
|
RDF/OWL?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Jeff, this is use
|
|
case <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Christian, there is
|
|
overlap with Massimo's use case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Christian: there is
|
|
overlap with Massimo's use case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> So we should provide
|
|
a link</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> thanks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Advantages of RDF:
|
|
combine with background knowledge, bootstrap and infer more
|
|
information</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Patrizia:we also have
|
|
the semantics of the algorithm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis: two issues:
|
|
we must have use cases that cover a broad range of languages
|
|
and vocabularies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> not all use cases
|
|
should be based on mpeg-7, not all shou</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> not all use cases
|
|
should be based on mpeg-7, not all should only use RDF, but
|
|
also different flavours of OWL</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> otherwise we cannot
|
|
show interoperability</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis: we should
|
|
use many metadata standards, not just three</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> all agree</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Ioannis: we need
|
|
spatio-temporal relations to be supported</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis: spatio
|
|
temporal relations are, from a language perspective, just
|
|
relations, so there is not a issue</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> the problem could be
|
|
on the reasoning level</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>chalaschek</cite>> yes the problem
|
|
is on the reasoning level</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff: I agree with
|
|
Vassilis, can do something even if spatio-temporal reasoning is
|
|
not supported</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Unstructured tagging
|
|
use case: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> show limitation of
|
|
tags, using tags across modalities or applications</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> show first efforts to
|
|
bring more structure to tagging, show advantages and common
|
|
approaches</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> show how it is
|
|
possible to use SW technology to use, for example picasa tags
|
|
in flickr, or from blogging app to another</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> thomas: I agree</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> other issues are
|
|
navigation between tags, clustering etc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jacco: maybe reuse
|
|
existing flickr2rdf converters etc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> make use case that
|
|
works cross modality</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Next use case: News
|
|
(<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05)">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05)</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Raphael: I will work
|
|
with people of the newsml/iptc community</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> use case should show
|
|
what you can do more if you convert all current vocabs. to RDF
|
|
and link to other material already out there</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> including: cross
|
|
modality search on news images and text</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> recognize different
|
|
version of the same story</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> make explicit links
|
|
among different versions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> patrizia: should
|
|
speach be added?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> reuse exisiting
|
|
metdatda, convert to RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Massimo (by SMS):
|
|
audio is not only music</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> all agree</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> who is here?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Raphael puts
|
|
Massimo's use case sent yesterday on the beamer</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> raphael: is this a
|
|
representation problem, massimo?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> i was only thinking
|
|
of use cases</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> but yes, you're
|
|
right raphael, it could be</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> BTW, do we have any
|
|
use cases on videos?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Massimo, could you
|
|
write this up in terms of a concrete use case? For example one
|
|
on e-science, or on image transforms on personal photos</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> news domain and
|
|
unstructured tagging deal with video, maybe the music use case
|
|
also</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> ok we'll think
|
|
about it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Raphael: lets talk
|
|
about deadlines</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> We have a teleconf on
|
|
the 20th of July, so submit half a page description on the 19th
|
|
of July, so we can disccus 5 use cases during the teleconf</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Thomas will be on
|
|
vacation but will contact George before</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Skip 3, 16 august
|
|
teleconf because of vacations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> proposal: next
|
|
teleconf on 31 august?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> resolved</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jeff</cite>> next teleconfs: 20
|
|
July and 31 August?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Vassilis</cite>> have we decided
|
|
who is goin to do be the editor of this deliverable?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> no, we will do the
|
|
individual use cases first</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> raphael: we do not
|
|
yet have talked about the structure of the document</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> jeff: agrees with
|
|
Vassilis, can we use the time left to look ahead?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> raphael: we will all
|
|
be contributors to the XG notes, but we also need editors</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis volunteers
|
|
to be one of the editors</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> obections to Vassilis
|
|
being an editor?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Resolved</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Any more
|
|
voluteers?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> No, want to see what
|
|
the documents are going to look like</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item04">next f2f</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> proposal: co-locate
|
|
with next ISWC conference in November, Athens, Georgia</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis: There are
|
|
many other competing events like ruleml, rif, owl2</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Other posibility is
|
|
to co-locate with SAMT in Athens, Greece</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> But this will be the
|
|
second f2f in Europe</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> could be thougth
|
|
the possibility of a videocon too ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> 5 november is
|
|
tutorials only</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/program/dates.htm">http://iswc2006.semanticweb.org/program/dates.htm</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rellero_</cite>> could be a good
|
|
idea make next f2f in Venice</p>
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|
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<p class='phone'><cite>giovanni:</cite> having the f2f coincide
|
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with ISWC workshops/demos may not be a good idea, since people
|
|
in the XG will attend the workshops/. Maybe before
|
|
ISWC?</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael and Jeff to contact US
|
|
partners and propose f2f date and location [recorded in
|
|
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Vassilis: Workshop in
|
|
Athens on cultural domain, presence from this XG will be
|
|
appreciated</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Vassilis to write proposal on the
|
|
agenda for 20 jult teleconf [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> any other
|
|
business?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Jeff: we skipt
|
|
discussing future deliverables, if any has an idea or
|
|
volunteers to be an editor, send mail to public mailing
|
|
list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> Chairs close the
|
|
meeting and thank all particpants</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Massimo</cite>> hi all and thank
|
|
you!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rellero_</cite>> see you soon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pasquale</cite>> bye all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rellero_</cite>> bye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>alessio</cite>> see you next time
|
|
:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jacco</cite>> scribe: jacco</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> patrizia to find
|
|
pointer to this tool [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael and Jeff
|
|
to contact US partners and propose f2f date and location
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Vassilis to write
|
|
proposal on the agenda for 20 jult teleconf [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.127 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2006/07/11 14:49:06 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/pus/puts/
|
|
Succeeded: s/Vasilis/Vassilis/
|
|
Found Scribe: Thomas
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: Thomas
|
|
Found Scribe: anadiotis
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: anadiotis
|
|
Found Scribe: jacco
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: jacco
|
|
Scribes: Thomas, anadiotis, jacco
|
|
ScribeNicks: Thomas, anadiotis, jacco
|
|
Default Present: meeting_room, Vassilis, Jeff_Pan, massimo
|
|
Present: Ioannias Vasileios VassilisThomas Raphael Patrizia George Lynda Jacco Giovanni Christian Jeff Pasquale Alessio Massimo Roberto Chris
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Susanne, Boll)
|
|
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
|
|
such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ SusanneBoll
|
|
|
|
Regrets: SusanneBoll
|
|
Agenda: <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html</a>
|
|
Got date from IRC log name: 11 Jul 2006
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/11-mmsem-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: jeff patrizia raphael vassilis
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
|
|
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|