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411 lines
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411 lines
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 01 Apr
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2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>01 Apr 2009</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Mar/0089.html'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Erik, Davy, Jack, Raphael, Silvia</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>Michael, Yves, Conrad</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Raphael</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">2. F2F meeting</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">3. WD Document</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">4. Implementation</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 01 April
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2009</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Raphael</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
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raphael</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>
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<p class='phone'>Propose to accept the minutes of 25/03?</p>
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<p class='phone'>YEs</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: minutes
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of 25/03 are accepted</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we move the
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telecon hour, to be more convenient for Silvia ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I will miss one telecon
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every two weeks</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> proposal to have the
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telecon 2 hours later<br />
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... to be more convenient for Silvia</p><a name="action01" id=
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"action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael asks Silvia if she would like
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to have the telecon 2 hours later [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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find user - Raphael</p>
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<p class='phone'>trackbot, status</p><a name="action02" id=
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"action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like
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to have the telecon 2 hours later [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-54
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- Asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours
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later [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-04-08].</p>
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<h3 id="item02">2. F2F meeting</h3>
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<p class='phone'>Erik list the participants: Michael, Jack,
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Erik, Davy, Raphael, Conrad, David, Franck, Guillaume</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> + Yves / Silvia on the
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phone</p>
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<h3 id="item03">3. WD Document</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> we will re-organize the
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section 5 significantly</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> my proposal, finish the
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document by next Wed 8 of April, and vote for publishing the
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document<br />
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... in our next telecon<br />
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... make a quick publication request</p>
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<p class='phone'>and hope to have the document published on the
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9th</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> agree</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> Michael took my action,
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because I was busy ... but perhaps I can take over<br />
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... I will send an email to Michael, to ask him if I can take
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over</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> difference between
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reference and informative sections?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> informative parts are
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just for giving hints to the reader, generally dtd or
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schemas</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.1: Syntax</p>
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<p class='phone'>Problem 1: not use '%' but spell
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it</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change the formal grammar to
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have 'percent' spelled [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-55
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- Change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [on Yves
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Lafon - due 2009-04-08].</p>
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<p class='phone'>Problem 2: use of single quote (') and
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sub-delims in utf8string</p><a name="action04" id=
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"action04"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change the formal grammar to
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have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and
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_not_ a set of pchars [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-56
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- Change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters +
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%-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [on Yves
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Lafon - due 2009-04-08].</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.2: Technologies Survey</p>
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<p class='phone'>Erik and Davy will work on it on Monday /
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Tuesday</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.3: HTTP implementation</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>close ACTION-52</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-52 Replace
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all examples in the HTTP implementation wiki page with the
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video Jack took closed</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how can I have the byte
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ranges that correspond to my temporal interval?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> now we are entering into a
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different problem, that is, should we do transcoding or
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not?<br />
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... the bytes range will be different depending on transcoding
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or not<br />
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... I have just sent an email stating we should consider more
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the user<br />
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... see: <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I think we should go for
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your option 2, and define what is reasonable<br />
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... what is the point 4? Is it related to the in-context
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discussion?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no, no, no</p>
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<p class='phone'>Point 5: we leave that away, we haven't
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specified what the spatial cropping will actually do!</p>
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<p class='phone'>Point 3: it seems to be related to the issue:
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transcoding or not</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> if we want to re-syn the
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audio and video, then we need to transcode</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what is the worst thing
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that can happen?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> the audio and video might
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not be aligned</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> the reason while I use a
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wget example, is that you want to store this piece and re-use
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it later on</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> my proposal was to do no
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transcoding and have a reasonable out-of-synch<br />
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... same than for the I-Frame<br />
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... we choose the closest timeframe</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> what is reasonable?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I think there is studies
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which show what is the largest not-synch temporal interval that
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users can support<br />
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... you and I have different interpretation of what we allow
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for transcoding<br />
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... I prefer Jack's interpretation</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I had interpreted it as "we
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will not standardise any type of fragmenting that we think
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cannot be implemented without using transcoding".</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I interpret it as "an
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implementation is not allowed to do any transcoding".</p>
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<p class='phone'>Davy also now prefers Jack's
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interpretation</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I think we can standardize
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a spec that can be implemented without transcoding</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I'm also now confused,
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it is different from your previous statement</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> if we have no boundary
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cases for media fragments, it should work</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we make the
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algorithm in the spec, that says, jump to the previous I-Frame,
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etc.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no, we should have in the
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spec, the user expectation</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> we should send larger
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sequence, in order to not transcode</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1 to Silvia</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1 to Silvia</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> get wider intervals, on a
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best-effort basis</p>
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<h3 id="item04">4. Implementation</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> talk about the new ogg
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spec</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> I think mp4 is also
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capable of skipping frames</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> the YouTube player is
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also working on a best effort, if you click on a time offset,
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then the player goes to the closest frame he can start to
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play</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what is the closest? can
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it be after?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I think it always goes
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back in time<br />
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... I need to check, but this is my experience</p>
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<p class='phone'>close ACTION-53</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-53 Check
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whether ffmpeg can slide movies easily, need for implementation
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on client and server side closed</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> give me an
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action</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to enter formally in the tracker
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the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial
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cropping [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-57
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- Enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found,
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regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [on Jack
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Jansen - due 2009-04-08].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I would like to have the
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telecon 2 hours later<br />
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... I think the section use case and requirements is ready</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> I agree</p>
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<p class='phone'>Look at <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> Looking</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> I am all sorry for
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myself, I didn't know I was late till now ! :-( I thought we
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were back to normal hours.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I will use our platform to
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discover the mapping between seconds and bytes for this
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particular video<br />
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... and update the wiki</p>
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<p class='phone'>No, AOB, Meeting adjourned</p>
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</div>
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<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
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Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to enter
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formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a)
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transcoding and b) spatial cropping [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael asks
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Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël asks
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Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change
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the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [recorded in
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">
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http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change
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the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones
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in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
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<br />
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[End of minutes]<br />
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<hr />
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<address>
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
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scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
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$Date: 2009/04/01 13:30:08 $
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</address>
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</body>
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</html>
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