Another abandoned server code base... this is kind of an ancestor of taskrambler.
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>14 Apr 2010</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>pchampin, MacTed, melvster, yoshiaki, +34.91.639.aaaa,
oshani, rreck, +049172247aabb</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>hhalpin</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>melvster</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2010-04-15T15:00-16:00GMT</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Action Reminders</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Oshani of MIT/DIG on her work on
policy-aware content re-use</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 14 April
2010</p>
<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2010-04-15T15:00-16:00GMT</h3>
<p class='phone'>i can scribe</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; something's weird
with Zakim again...</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; scribe:
melvster</p>
<p class='phone'>tho my IP will reset in about 55 minutes</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; approve?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; APPROVED: Minutes
from 4-07 approved.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; for attendance ...
IRC (currently) shows : yoshiaki pchampin hhalpin oshani MacTed
melvster AlexPassant tinkster</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> looking at policy
languages</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; XACML</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> next week larger
overview, outside of sem web, inc. XACML</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; APPROVED: meet next
week 4-22</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<h3 id="item02">Action Reminders</h3>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; wonder how zakim knew
me</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; they must have gotten
the email</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> everyone that has an open
action isnt on the phone<br />
... will send people personal reminders</p><a name="action01"
id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to send personal reminders
that final report actions should be done before next meeting
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-137
- Send personal reminders that final report actions should be
done before next meeting [on Harry Halpin - due
2010-04-21].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> let's go over to
oshani<br />
... from MIT DIG</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>oshani</cite>&gt; Slides of my talk:
<a href=
"http://people.csail.mit.edu/oshani/talks/swxg.pdf">http://people.csail.mit.edu/oshani/talks/swxg.pdf</a></p>
<h3 id="item03">Oshani of MIT/DIG on her work on policy-aware
content re-use</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> use case where someones
picture was taken from flickr<br />
... advertising campagn<br />
... but it was legal acc. to the rules, to use it<br />
... pen friend</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.parentdish.com/tag/dump%20your%20pen%20friend/">http://www.parentdish.com/tag/dump%20your%20pen%20friend/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> slides on irc<br />
... im a phd student at DIG MIT<br />
... focuses mainly on policies for the web<br />
... how it relates to sem web<br />
... first a small example, of why it's important to make people
policy aware<br />
... discuss a few tools we've developed in our group<br />
... talk about 'respect my privcay'<br />
... lots of content on the web 3.6bn on flickr, 1 trillion web
pages<br />
... people put their content on the web, and expect people to
properly attribute<br />
... cc licences is the de facto licence<br />
... meant to be a rights expression, rather enforcement,
expressed in human/machine readable format</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Creative Commons I
think was one of the main use cases for the creation of RDFa
(i.e. RDF markup inside HTML)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> human readable, icons,
text for lawyers<br />
... machine readable too<br />
... 100m flikr images CC licenced</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 6</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> cc licences support
different uses<br />
... Share Alike most common<br />
... non commercial use<br />
... no derivatives, means you must use as is<br />
... people can mix content</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 7</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> most search engines
support CC, yahoo google</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 8</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> most content sites
support CC<br />
... you can generate your own CC licences<br />
... from creativecommons.org<br />
... you can generate from a wizard</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> AttributionName<br />
... cc:AttributionURL</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 10</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> cc:morePermissions<br />
... using RDF to describe licences<br />
... licence has a URI</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 11</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; you could color code
the edges</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> human readable format is easy
to read<br />
... also uses RDFa<br />
... will show you the permissions<br />
... eg free to share / remix and the permissions beyond are
availailble at &lt;URI&gt; attribution, and can properly
attribute the person</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 13</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> wanted to see if people are
actually aware of these things<br />
... 78% - 94% are not aware of CC<br />
... we used flickr images<br />
... CC did a survey saying images are the most commonly used
content<br />
... flickr has the largest collection of CC images<br />
... nice URI<br />
... to extract photo information<br />
... used technorati to generate samples<br />
... randomized selection of flikr image URIs<br />
... authority rank, varies over time, and we collected 3
samples</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 17</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> used CC attribution<br />
... one of the well defined CC licences out there<br />
... use username<br />
... use URL<br />
... close to wherever that content is used<br />
... flickr username or full name of user, URL was flickr user
url<br />
... either /or<br />
... questions?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> was my intution, but
this is the first statistics<br />
... is there any related work?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> not that i know of</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 18</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> raw violations 78% -
94%</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; oh, I'd also be
interested in stats of use of ccRel in microformats vs rdfa in
the wild</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; or just in HTML as
a picture.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> if it's your image you
own the copyright</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; My guess is image
in HTML will predominate...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> if you're not using the
licence, then you're setting a precident<br />
... precision analysis<br />
... low precision<br />
... needed to remove<br />
... non self attributed images<br />
... found a higher rate<br />
... not bad people<br />
... lazy / dont know terms / dont know how to properly
attribute people</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 21</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/WSRI-Exchange/results">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/WSRI-Exchange/results</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> did you look at only
flickr? does it use microformats or rdfa?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> they now use rdfa, but
not during the experiment</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; great work helping
them use RDFa.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> interesting to see stats
on how much machine readable format is out there</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 22</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> have several tools to
enable policy awareness<br />
... one is flickr cc validator<br />
... idea is you can give any uri with flickr images<br />
... can validate violations<br />
... will show images that violate any licence, the owner, and
how to correct<br />
... limitations : can only validate images that have the flickr
image uri<br />
... it wont work with an alternate URI<br />
... wont detect getty images etc. if they had been uploaded to
flickr</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> images that are hotlinked
... do you have anything that looks inside the image file, eg
in the headers?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> can look at meta data,
but CC data isnt there unfortunately, just a key value pair
that people can overwrite</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> if someone is casually
violating, do you detect that</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> there are tools that
allow you to embed any key value pairs<br />
... better alternative, XMP where you can put RDF, I was
proposing that to flickr</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> not sure whether they'll
change</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; for embedding it
themselves, make it as easy as possible for enduser</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> want them to support
XMP</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/FlickrCC/validator.cgi">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/FlickrCC/validator.cgi</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> you can try it out<br />
... other type of tool is more general<br />
... any type of content</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 27</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> so long as they have a CC
licence in right expression lang<br />
... right now only impl. for images<br />
... FF extension<br />
... if you're browsing images, it will show you if you can copy
an image<br />
... if you want to find images that are used for commercial
purposes<br />
... you can use the tool to highlight those images</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 28</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> right click on an
image<br />
... context menu will allow you to copy, copy with licence,
will make you automatically licence compliant<br />
... limitations we would want rdfa, most content doesnt have
rdfa<br />
... hopefully supported in subsequent versions</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 30</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/tab/release/unofficial/tabulator-latest.xpi">
http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/tab/release/unofficial/tabulator-latest.xpi</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> try it out<br />
... install tabulator<br />
... then you can use it</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> any chance it will be
divorced from tabulator?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> tabulator is in active
development<br />
... several unofficial uses<br />
... it uses the tabulator rdf parser library<br />
... so the code wont be replicated</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> sandbox security settings
are needed for tabulator<br />
... if you dont do that tabulator doesnt work</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> i can do that</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> i would encourage you to
do so</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> policies on content
reuse<br />
... how to give proper credit<br />
... people worry about things like privacy on soc nets<br />
... two of my colleagues created a project called 'repsect my
privacy'</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 32</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> specify
restrictions<br />
... facebook has access control settings, but what happens if
the data somehow gets out?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 33</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> private information can
be copied and reposted<br />
... inferences can be made ... 'gaydar'</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; this work is
actually rather scary!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> analysed MIT network and
selected 1500 males, and based on inference principles, they
can infer sexual orientation<br />
... policy changes can also occur<br />
... no clear cut solution<br />
... information accountability<br />
... specify under what conditions data can be reused<br />
... similar to CC</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 34</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 35</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> make people aware of
usage restrictions<br />
... supported across facebook, opensocial, tabulator<br />
... ask the user to specify privacy preferences<br />
... displays data and highlights restrictions</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 36</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> RMP restrictions<br />
... no commercial<br />
... no depiction ... please dont use my picture<br />
... no employment<br />
... no financial<br />
... no medical dont use this information for any medical
decisions<br />
... eg insurance cos. / hospitals<br />
... motivated by several complaints</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 37</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://apps.facebook.com/respectmyprivacy/">http://apps.facebook.com/respectmyprivacy/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> went further<br />
... tried to use the semantic web<br />
... facebook applications are limited<br />
... just a label<br />
... used FOAF converter by Matt Rowe<br />
... uses RMP decisions<br />
... not allowed to keep exported data off facebook for &gt; 24
hours<br />
... makes it restrictive</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; hmm how do they
enforce that time restriction?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> also used on
tabulator<br />
... uses application panes<br />
... supprots edit in place (SPARUL)<br />
... data pane<br />
... social pane<br />
... get yourself a webid<br />
... using webDAV<br />
... browse FOAF profiles</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; slide 42</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> extended foaf pane<br />
... includes RMP<br />
... include privacy restrictions<br />
... if your FOAF has SPARUL it will persist<br />
... can add licences to FOAF<br />
... example slide 43<br />
... can intermix CC and RMP<br />
... that's about it for RMP ... questions?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; like the mixing,
thats RDF</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> how does facebook
legally enforce the 24h export data rule</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> it's the privacy
policy<br />
... dont know how they enforce it</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; any other
questions?</p>
<p class='phone'>i can download that extension from the link
above, yes?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> what does the fb app.
do? does it change privacy setting to be confomant with
rmp?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> no, we cant touch those,
we can display a badge<br />
... before you install the app, it gives the philosophy behind
RMP, more a notice, encouraging people to be honest</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; questions?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> we want distributed
policy in access control languages, only a few uses, what are
your thougths on CC and the other work being done, can we make
it more general</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; but it could be
part of an access control langauge</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> CC is data uses rather
than access control</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> some use cases eg dump
your penfriend, are content reuse, some issues solved by
tagging, can people be notified</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; yes that's
correct</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> that used CC attribution
licences, and vigin mobile properly attributed the person that
uploaded that image, so they were licence compliant</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Virgin was license
compliant!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> settled out of court</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; weird</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; nothing to
Flickr?</p>
<p class='phone'>( my connection will die in about 2 minutes
)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> if someone comes and
reuses your image, they can do certain things<br />
... cc is not that explicit, people need to be more policy and
licence aware<br />
... there should be tools that let you do that</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; thanks for
presenting</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
standardization?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ccRel
well-known</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; seems to being used
correctly?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; RMP introduced some
new terms that might not have consensus</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; so maybe W3C could
look in that direction.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Meeting
Adjourned</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; bye bye</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; bubye</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster1</cite>&gt; hi sorry about
that</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; no problem melvster
I got the final minutes</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster1</cite>&gt; great! :)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to send
personal reminders that final report actions should be done
before next meeting [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
&nbsp;<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2010/04/14 15:59:39 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/APPORVED/APPROVED/
Succeeded: s/UIR/URI/
Found Scribe: melvster
Inferring ScribeNick: melvster
Default Present: pchampin, MacTed, melvster, yoshiaki, +34.91.639.aaaa, oshani, rreck, +049172247aabb
Present: pchampin MacTed melvster yoshiaki +34.91.639.aaaa oshani rreck +049172247aabb
Found Date: 14 Apr 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: hhalpin
</pre>[End of <a href=
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