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662 lines
22 KiB
662 lines
22 KiB
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 14 Apr
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2010</title>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>14 Apr 2010</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>pchampin, MacTed, melvster, yoshiaki, +34.91.639.aaaa,
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oshani, rreck, +049172247aabb</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>hhalpin</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>melvster</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2010-04-15T15:00-16:00GMT</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">Action Reminders</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">Oshani of MIT/DIG on her work on
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policy-aware content re-use</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 14 April
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2010</p>
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<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2010-04-15T15:00-16:00GMT</h3>
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<p class='phone'>i can scribe</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> something's weird
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with Zakim again...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> scribe:
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melvster</p>
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<p class='phone'>tho my IP will reset in about 55 minutes</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> approve?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> APPROVED: Minutes
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from 4-07 approved.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> for attendance ...
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IRC (currently) shows : yoshiaki pchampin hhalpin oshani MacTed
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melvster AlexPassant tinkster</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> looking at policy
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languages</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> XACML</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> next week larger
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overview, outside of sem web, inc. XACML</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> APPROVED: meet next
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week 4-22</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<h3 id="item02">Action Reminders</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> wonder how zakim knew
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me</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> they must have gotten
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the email</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> everyone that has an open
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action isnt on the phone<br />
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... will send people personal reminders</p><a name="action01"
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id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to send personal reminders
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that final report actions should be done before next meeting
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-137
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- Send personal reminders that final report actions should be
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done before next meeting [on Harry Halpin - due
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2010-04-21].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> let's go over to
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oshani<br />
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... from MIT DIG</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> Slides of my talk:
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<a href=
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"http://people.csail.mit.edu/oshani/talks/swxg.pdf">http://people.csail.mit.edu/oshani/talks/swxg.pdf</a></p>
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<h3 id="item03">Oshani of MIT/DIG on her work on policy-aware
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content re-use</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> use case where someones
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picture was taken from flickr<br />
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... advertising campagn<br />
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... but it was legal acc. to the rules, to use it<br />
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... pen friend</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.parentdish.com/tag/dump%20your%20pen%20friend/">http://www.parentdish.com/tag/dump%20your%20pen%20friend/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> slides on irc<br />
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... im a phd student at DIG MIT<br />
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... focuses mainly on policies for the web<br />
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... how it relates to sem web<br />
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... first a small example, of why it's important to make people
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policy aware<br />
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... discuss a few tools we've developed in our group<br />
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... talk about 'respect my privcay'<br />
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... lots of content on the web 3.6bn on flickr, 1 trillion web
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pages<br />
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... people put their content on the web, and expect people to
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properly attribute<br />
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... cc licences is the de facto licence<br />
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... meant to be a rights expression, rather enforcement,
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expressed in human/machine readable format</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Creative Commons I
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think was one of the main use cases for the creation of RDFa
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(i.e. RDF markup inside HTML)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> human readable, icons,
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text for lawyers<br />
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... machine readable too<br />
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... 100m flikr images CC licenced</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 6</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> cc licences support
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different uses<br />
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... Share Alike most common<br />
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... non commercial use<br />
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... no derivatives, means you must use as is<br />
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... people can mix content</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 7</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> most search engines
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support CC, yahoo google</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 8</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> most content sites
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support CC<br />
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... you can generate your own CC licences<br />
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... from creativecommons.org<br />
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... you can generate from a wizard</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> AttributionName<br />
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... cc:AttributionURL</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 10</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> cc:morePermissions<br />
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... using RDF to describe licences<br />
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... licence has a URI</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 11</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> you could color code
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the edges</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> human readable format is easy
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to read<br />
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... also uses RDFa<br />
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... will show you the permissions<br />
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... eg free to share / remix and the permissions beyond are
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availailble at <URI> attribution, and can properly
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attribute the person</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 13</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> wanted to see if people are
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actually aware of these things<br />
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... 78% - 94% are not aware of CC<br />
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... we used flickr images<br />
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... CC did a survey saying images are the most commonly used
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content<br />
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... flickr has the largest collection of CC images<br />
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... nice URI<br />
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... to extract photo information<br />
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... used technorati to generate samples<br />
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... randomized selection of flikr image URIs<br />
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... authority rank, varies over time, and we collected 3
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samples</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 17</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cc:</cite> used CC attribution<br />
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... one of the well defined CC licences out there<br />
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... use username<br />
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... use URL<br />
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... close to wherever that content is used<br />
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... flickr username or full name of user, URL was flickr user
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url<br />
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... either /or<br />
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... questions?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> was my intution, but
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this is the first statistics<br />
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... is there any related work?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> not that i know of</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 18</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> raw violations 78% -
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94%</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> oh, I'd also be
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interested in stats of use of ccRel in microformats vs rdfa in
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the wild</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> or just in HTML as
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a picture.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> if it's your image you
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own the copyright</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> My guess is image
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in HTML will predominate...</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> if you're not using the
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licence, then you're setting a precident<br />
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... precision analysis<br />
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... low precision<br />
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... needed to remove<br />
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... non self attributed images<br />
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... found a higher rate<br />
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... not bad people<br />
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... lazy / dont know terms / dont know how to properly
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attribute people</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 21</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/WSRI-Exchange/results">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2008/WSRI-Exchange/results</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> did you look at only
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flickr? does it use microformats or rdfa?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> they now use rdfa, but
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not during the experiment</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> great work helping
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them use RDFa.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> interesting to see stats
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on how much machine readable format is out there</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 22</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> have several tools to
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enable policy awareness<br />
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... one is flickr cc validator<br />
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... idea is you can give any uri with flickr images<br />
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... can validate violations<br />
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... will show images that violate any licence, the owner, and
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how to correct<br />
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... limitations : can only validate images that have the flickr
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image uri<br />
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... it wont work with an alternate URI<br />
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... wont detect getty images etc. if they had been uploaded to
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flickr</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> images that are hotlinked
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... do you have anything that looks inside the image file, eg
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in the headers?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> can look at meta data,
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but CC data isnt there unfortunately, just a key value pair
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that people can overwrite</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> if someone is casually
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violating, do you detect that</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> there are tools that
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allow you to embed any key value pairs<br />
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... better alternative, XMP where you can put RDF, I was
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proposing that to flickr</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> not sure whether they'll
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change</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> for embedding it
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themselves, make it as easy as possible for enduser</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> want them to support
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XMP</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/FlickrCC/validator.cgi">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/FlickrCC/validator.cgi</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> you can try it out<br />
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... other type of tool is more general<br />
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... any type of content</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 27</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> so long as they have a CC
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licence in right expression lang<br />
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... right now only impl. for images<br />
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... FF extension<br />
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... if you're browsing images, it will show you if you can copy
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an image<br />
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... if you want to find images that are used for commercial
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purposes<br />
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... you can use the tool to highlight those images</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 28</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> right click on an
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image<br />
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... context menu will allow you to copy, copy with licence,
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will make you automatically licence compliant<br />
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... limitations we would want rdfa, most content doesnt have
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rdfa<br />
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... hopefully supported in subsequent versions</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 30</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/tab/release/unofficial/tabulator-latest.xpi">
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http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2007/tab/release/unofficial/tabulator-latest.xpi</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> try it out<br />
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... install tabulator<br />
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... then you can use it</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> any chance it will be
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divorced from tabulator?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> tabulator is in active
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development<br />
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... several unofficial uses<br />
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... it uses the tabulator rdf parser library<br />
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... so the code wont be replicated</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> sandbox security settings
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are needed for tabulator<br />
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... if you dont do that tabulator doesnt work</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> i can do that</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>MacTed:</cite> i would encourage you to
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do so</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> policies on content
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reuse<br />
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... how to give proper credit<br />
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... people worry about things like privacy on soc nets<br />
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... two of my colleagues created a project called 'repsect my
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privacy'</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 32</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> specify
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restrictions<br />
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... facebook has access control settings, but what happens if
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the data somehow gets out?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 33</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> private information can
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be copied and reposted<br />
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... inferences can be made ... 'gaydar'</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> this work is
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actually rather scary!</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> analysed MIT network and
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selected 1500 males, and based on inference principles, they
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can infer sexual orientation<br />
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... policy changes can also occur<br />
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... no clear cut solution<br />
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... information accountability<br />
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... specify under what conditions data can be reused<br />
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... similar to CC</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 34</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 35</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> make people aware of
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usage restrictions<br />
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... supported across facebook, opensocial, tabulator<br />
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... ask the user to specify privacy preferences<br />
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... displays data and highlights restrictions</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 36</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> RMP restrictions<br />
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... no commercial<br />
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... no depiction ... please dont use my picture<br />
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... no employment<br />
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... no financial<br />
|
|
... no medical dont use this information for any medical
|
|
decisions<br />
|
|
... eg insurance cos. / hospitals<br />
|
|
... motivated by several complaints</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 37</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://apps.facebook.com/respectmyprivacy/">http://apps.facebook.com/respectmyprivacy/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> went further<br />
|
|
... tried to use the semantic web<br />
|
|
... facebook applications are limited<br />
|
|
... just a label<br />
|
|
... used FOAF converter by Matt Rowe<br />
|
|
... uses RMP decisions<br />
|
|
... not allowed to keep exported data off facebook for > 24
|
|
hours<br />
|
|
... makes it restrictive</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hmm how do they
|
|
enforce that time restriction?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> also used on
|
|
tabulator<br />
|
|
... uses application panes<br />
|
|
... supprots edit in place (SPARUL)<br />
|
|
... data pane<br />
|
|
... social pane<br />
|
|
... get yourself a webid<br />
|
|
... using webDAV<br />
|
|
... browse FOAF profiles</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> slide 42</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> extended foaf pane<br />
|
|
... includes RMP<br />
|
|
... include privacy restrictions<br />
|
|
... if your FOAF has SPARUL it will persist<br />
|
|
... can add licences to FOAF<br />
|
|
... example slide 43<br />
|
|
... can intermix CC and RMP<br />
|
|
... that's about it for RMP ... questions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> like the mixing,
|
|
thats RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> how does facebook
|
|
legally enforce the 24h export data rule</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> it's the privacy
|
|
policy<br />
|
|
... dont know how they enforce it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> any other
|
|
questions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i can download that extension from the link
|
|
above, yes?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> what does the fb app.
|
|
do? does it change privacy setting to be confomant with
|
|
rmp?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> no, we cant touch those,
|
|
we can display a badge<br />
|
|
... before you install the app, it gives the philosophy behind
|
|
RMP, more a notice, encouraging people to be honest</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> questions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> we want distributed
|
|
policy in access control languages, only a few uses, what are
|
|
your thougths on CC and the other work being done, can we make
|
|
it more general</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> but it could be
|
|
part of an access control langauge</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> CC is data uses rather
|
|
than access control</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> some use cases eg dump
|
|
your penfriend, are content reuse, some issues solved by
|
|
tagging, can people be notified</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes that's
|
|
correct</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> that used CC attribution
|
|
licences, and vigin mobile properly attributed the person that
|
|
uploaded that image, so they were licence compliant</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Virgin was license
|
|
compliant!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> settled out of court</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> weird</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> nothing to
|
|
Flickr?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>( my connection will die in about 2 minutes
|
|
)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> if someone comes and
|
|
reuses your image, they can do certain things<br />
|
|
... cc is not that explicit, people need to be more policy and
|
|
licence aware<br />
|
|
... there should be tools that let you do that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> thanks for
|
|
presenting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
standardization?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ccRel
|
|
well-known</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> seems to being used
|
|
correctly?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RMP introduced some
|
|
new terms that might not have consensus</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so maybe W3C could
|
|
look in that direction.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
|
|
Adjourned</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> bye bye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> bubye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster1</cite>> hi sorry about
|
|
that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> no problem melvster
|
|
I got the final minutes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster1</cite>> great! :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to send
|
|
personal reminders that final report actions should be done
|
|
before next meeting [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2010/04/14 15:59:39 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/APPORVED/APPROVED/
|
|
Succeeded: s/UIR/URI/
|
|
Found Scribe: melvster
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: melvster
|
|
Default Present: pchampin, MacTed, melvster, yoshiaki, +34.91.639.aaaa, oshani, rreck, +049172247aabb
|
|
Present: pchampin MacTed melvster yoshiaki +34.91.639.aaaa oshani rreck +049172247aabb
|
|
Found Date: 14 Apr 2010
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: hhalpin
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|