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<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><!--*- nxml -*-->
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
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<title>July 2004 RDF Data Access Working Group Meeting in Carlsbad,
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California</title>
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</head>
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<body>
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<div class="nav">
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<a href="../../../">W3C</a> * <a href="./">RDF Data Access WG</a></div>
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<h1>RDF Data Access Working Group Meeting, July 2004</h1>
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<h2>hosted in Carlsbad, California by <a
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href="http://www.networkinference.com/">Network Inference</a></h2>
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<div style="text-align: center">
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on this page: <a href="#where">Venue</a> * <a href="#who">Participants</a> *
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<a href="#agenda">Agenda</a> * <a href="#min">Minutes</a> * <a
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href="#rdl">Reading List</a><br />
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nearby: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter">charter</a> * <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/">public-rdf-dawg
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archive</a> * <a
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href="http://www.networkinference.com/w3c/dawg/venue.html">logistics
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details</a> * <a href="DesignEvaluations">Design Evaluations</a> *
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc">irc 14Jul</a>,
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc">irc 15Jul</a>,
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc">irc 16Jul(UTC)</a>
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</div>
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<p>The goals of this meeting are to:</p>
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<ul>
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<li>Choose an initial design (cf <a href="DesignEvaluations">Design
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Evaluations</a>)</li>
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<li>Start collecting <a href="issues">issues</a></li>
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<li>Start test development</li>
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<li>discuss updates to <a href="UseCases">Use Cases and
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Requirements</a> based on reader feedback and WG discussions</li>
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</ul>
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<address>
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by Dan Connolly, chair <br />
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with thanks to the scribes: Kendall Clark, Andy Seaborne, Prud'hommeaux, Jos De Roo, Simon Raboczi<br />
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<small>$Revision: 1.37 $ of $Date: 2004/08/05 21:43:53 $ by <!-- split -->
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$Author: connolly $</small><br />
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see also: <a href="#chlog">changelog</a>
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</address>
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<div>
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<h2 id="agenda">Agenda</h2>
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<h3 id="jul14">Wed, 14 Jul</h3>
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<ul>
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<li><a href="#roll">Convene, admin</a> (9am)</li>
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<li><a href="#specDev">Issue-driven, Test-driven specification development</a></li>
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<li><a href="#initdn">Initial Design positions</a></li>
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<li><a href="#qrdesigns">Non-RDQL design centers: XQuery, Rules</a></li>
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<li>lunch (1:00 to 2:30)</li>
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<li><a href="#req">Requirements</a> (2:30)</li>
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<li><a href="#objs">Objectives</a></li>
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<li>break (4:00 to 4:30)</li>
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<li><a href="#initdn2">Initial Design Positions, revisited</a></li>
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<li>stop for the day (6pm)</li>
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</ul>
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<h3 id="jul15">Thu, 15 Jul</h3>
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<ul>
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<li>resume (9am)</li>
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<li><a href="#usecase">New Use cases (ebXML registry,
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XQuery/RDF)</a></li>
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<li>Break-outs:
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<ul>
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<li><a href="#brqlw">BRQL walkthru</a></li>
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<li><a href="#xqfa">XQuery design exploration</a></li>
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</ul></li>
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<li><a href="#ucrpub">Toward updated Use Cases and Requirements publication</a></li>
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<li><a href="#initdn3">Initial Design/Strawman query language</a></li>
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<li><a href="#protexp">Exploration of protocol designs</a></li>
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<li>Adjourn (5:30pm)</li>
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</ul>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="where">Venue</h2>
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<p><img align="right" src="ftf2-img.png" alt="" />The meeting is in Carlsbad,
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California. See <a
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href="http://www.networkinference.com/w3c/dawg/venue.html">logistics details
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from the host</a> for exact location, hotel accomodations etc. The local
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organizer for this meeting is Rob Shearer, with alternative local contact Lyndi Sinclair.</p>
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<p>The meeting includes some <a name="phone" id="phone">remote
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participation</a> in the <a href="irc://irc.w3.org:6665/dawg">usual
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#dawg IRC channel</a> and the <a
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href="http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html#s_1410">DAWG
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Zakim teleconference</a>.</p>
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<p><em>image details: <a href="ftf2-formal.n3">ftf2-formal.n3</a>, <a
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href="Makefile">Makefile</a>, and <cite><a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0064.html">fun with people, places, and timezones</a></cite></em></p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="who">Participants</h2>
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<p>The following <a href="./#who">members of the WG</a> attended:</p>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="http://www.agfa.com">Agfa-Gevaert N. V.</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Jos <b>De Roo</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0004.html">intro</a>.
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near <em>Bruxelles, Belgium</em>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.hp.com/">HP</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Andy <b>Seaborne</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0006.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>BRS</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.mindlab.umd.edu/index.html">Maryland Information
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and Network Dynamics Lab at the University of Maryland</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Kendall <b>Clark</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0045.html">intro</a>
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near <em>College Park, Maryland, USA</em>, <tt>DCA</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.panasonic.co.jp/global/">Matsushita Electric
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Industrial Co., Ltd. (MEI)</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Yoshio <b>Fukushige</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0138.html">intro</a>;
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near <em>Tokyo, Japan</em>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.networkinference.com">Network Inference</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Jeff <b>Pollock</b></li>
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<li>Rob <b>Shearer</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0093.html">intro</a>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.nttinfo.ntt.jp/">Nippon Telegraph & Telephone Corp. (NTT)</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Hiroyuki <b>Sato</b> (<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0049.html">intro</a>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.tucanatech.com/">Tucana Technologies, Inc.</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Simon <b>Raboczi</b></li>
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<li>Tom <b>Adams</b> <em>partial/remote</em></li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/rdu/w3">University of Bristol</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Dave <b>Beckett</b> <em>partial/remote</em>(<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0057.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>BRS</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li>Invited Experts
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<ul>
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<li>Howard <b>Katz</b> (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0219.html">intro</a>
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near <tt>YVR</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.w3.org/">W3C</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Dan <b>Connolly</b>, chair (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0002.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>MCI</tt>)</li>
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<li>Eric <b>Prud'hommeaux</b>, team contact (<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0001.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>NRT</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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</ol>
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<p>John Bresnik and Dave Roberts of a <a
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href="http://txc.spawar.navy.mil/">navy technology clearinghouse</a>
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participated in the meeting as observers and shared
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<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0161.html">some thoughts</a> afterward.</p>
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<p>regrets/excused:</p>
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<ul>
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<li>Dirk <b>Colaert</b></li>
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<li>Alberto <b>Reggiori</b></li>
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<li>Dirk-Willem <b>van Gulik</b></li>
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<li>Bryan <b>Thompson</b></li>
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<li>Kevin <b>Wilkinson</b></li>
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<li>Jean-François <b>Baget</b></li>
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<li>James <b>Hendler</b></li>
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<li>Janne <b>Saarela</b></li>
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<li>Farrukh <b>Najmi</b></li>
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<li>Stephen <b>Harris</b></li>
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<li>Pat <b>Hayes</b></li>
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</ul>
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<p><em>of historical interest: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/" >registration
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form</a>.</em></p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="min">Minutes</h2>
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<h3 id="roll">Convene, admin</h3>
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<p>The meeting began with roll call; see <a href=
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"#who">participants</a> above.</p>
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<p><b>RESOLVED: to approve the <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0052.html"
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>6 July minutes</a> as a true record</b>.</p>
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<p>Whereas the W3C Advisory Committee meeting has been scheduled for
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the 1st week of December, 2004, we <b>RESOLVED to unschedule our
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1-2 Dec RDF Data Access WG meeting</b>. <b>ACTION EricP</b>: find out the
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schedule of the 2005 W3C tech plenary and inform the WG so that we can
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plan ftf meetings after September.</p>
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<h3 id="specDev">Issue-driven, test-driven specification development</h3>
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<p>DanC suggested following an issue-driven specification
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development process, using tests to characterize and resolve issues,
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once a strawman design has been chosen. A number of risks
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were discussed:</p>
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<p><b>Feature creep</b>: closing issues by adding features, resulting
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in an overly complex design. Test-driven development is supposed to
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give us a certain amount of "design courage" to refactor the design to
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maintain simplicity.</p>
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<p><b>churn</b>: there is a bootstrapping problem with articulating
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tests <em>in</em> the language, except some tests and new features
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change the language. Tests may have to be rewritten, perhaps
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repeatedly. We can start with natural language descriptions of tests;
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but eventually we'll want an automated, machine-processable test
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suite, so that other folks can interact with them.</p>
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<p>We'll also need a protocol testing mechanism, which may be somewhat
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involved.</p>
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<p>In discussion of maintenance mechanics, we noted that ericp,
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yoshio, jos, dan, andy, kendall have cvs write access.</p>
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<p>EricP is handling the <a href="issues">issues list</a> but he'd
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like to have some help. <em>Later, KendallC expressed interest in
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maintaining the issues list, provided UC&R stabilizes.</em></p>
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<h3 id="initdn">Initial Design positions</h3>
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<p>DanC noted that the <a
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href="http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/results">initial
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design straw poll</a> showed a critical mass of support for BRQL/RDQL
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and invited each participant to give their position on the strawman
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query language design. <em>DanC noted part way thru that the input
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to the automated poll was internal to the group; WG members who
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wanted their comments on the public record would need to re-iterate
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them or forward them. The following notes are likely incomplete:</em></p>
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<ul>
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<li>RobS supported XQuery-based designs and opposed BRQL.</li>
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<li>AndyS supported BRQL, arguing that XQuery-based designs leave too
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much of the burden on the app developer, and don't straightforwardly
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express RDF queries.</li>
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<li>SimonR advocated the simple WHERE clause in RDQL.</li>
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<li>JosD finds rdql/brql workable, but prefers n3ql because it's "all in triples". Jos asked about having brql as a strawman and an n3ql serialization.</li>
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<li>YoshioF supported brql and n3ql</li>
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<li>HiroyukiS leaned toward brql, with some reservations related to integration with higher levels of the semantic web architecture.</li>
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<li>HowardK advocated xsrql.</li>
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<li>DanC supported RDQL, with its straightforward WHERE clause, argued that parts of BRQL seem to be premature standardization, but expressed confidence that WG review starting with BRQL would lead to a satisfactory result.</li>
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<li>EricP expressed concerns about a false sense of familiarity among end users for a language with sql-like syntax, and about about federation tradeoffs; he
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still prefers algae, finds n3ql acceptable.</li>
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<li>KendallC had little to add over the comments he had submitted in the form,
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and noted XQuery would be expensive to add to his implementation; argued that
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when convincing real world people to use [dawg-ql], even a false-sense of familiarity is helpful; expressed a preference for RDQL or BRQL based on implementation
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experience with the [RdfDB] family of designs.</li>
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</ul>
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<p>In response to comments about the connection between these design
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and rules, DanC noted that the work of this Working Group might
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usefully be informed by a W3C Workshop on rules, such as the the
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Semantic Web Coordination Group has discussed from time to time.</p>
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<h3 id="qrdesigns">Non-RDQL design centers: XQuery, Rules</h3>
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<p><em>TomA and DaveB joined remotely.</em></p>
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<p>HowardK gave brief live demo of <cite><a
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href="http://www.fatdog.com/xsrql.html">XsRQL: an XQuery-style Query
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Language for RDF</a></cite> and discussed implementation and
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timeframes. The <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc">raw
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irc log</a> captures a bit of the technical discussion.</p>
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<p>DanC noted <a href= "http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/N3QL.html"
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>N3QL</a>'s motivation is integration with rules, diff, etc., to which
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AndyS argued for a separation of functionality concerns from syntax
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concerns. SimonR asked whether, if we have graph results, are we not
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doing a (simple) rules language? DanC answered that yes, that's a
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limited form of rule; more generally, horn clauses allow the body of
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the rule to be a different shape from the head. AndyS added that rules
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systems can include the feature of results feeding back into the
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KB.</p>
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<p><b>ACTION Simon+Kendall</b> elaborate the rel. of rules and
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"construct" in the UC&R doc.</p>
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<p>RobS noted universals seem to have few precedents in extant
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languages. e.g. "someone all of whose girlfriends are attractive" is
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hard to express.</p>
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<p>The relationship between OWL and rules came up in discussion; a
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paper by Grosof and Horrocks, <cite><a href=
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"http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~horrocks/Publications/download/2003/p117-grosof.pdf"
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>Description Logic Programs: Combining Logic Programs with Description
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Logic</a></cite> was recommended by several WG members.</p>
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<p>The group discussed a <tt>premise</tt> mechanism, such as discussed
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in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-Yoshio/DAWG-addenda040628.html" >a note
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from YoshioF</a>. RobS noted that iTQL has a similar mechanism, called
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<tt>given</tt>. EricP noted related features in Algae. <b>ACTION
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EricP</b>: offer implementation experience (perhaps in use case form)
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with premises and algae. <em>done? <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0247.html">annotea
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use case</a></em></p>
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<p><em>Then we broke for lunch and ad-hoc technical discussion.
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The <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc#T21-03-48">irc log
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starting 21:03:48Z</a> includes a few notes.
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</em></p>
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<h3 id="req">Resolving pending requirements</h3>
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<p>The group discussed requirement <a
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href="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#r3.6">3.6 Optional
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Match</a>. A <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0024.html">message from SimonR</a> advocating the requirement discharged his earlier action.</p>
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<p>EricP reported mixed opinions from W3C's semantic web advanced
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development group: TBL opposed, DanC worries about the time cost;
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EricP has been persuaded it is needed. RobS argued against putting it
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on the critical path as a requirement. YoshioF noted the risk that if
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we don't standardize it, the market will meet the need in incompatible
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ways. DanC asked for new arguments that had not yet been discussed,
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and there were none. Observing a critical mass in favor he put the
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question and we <b id="res-optional-req">RESOLVED to adopt
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requirement <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#r3.6" >3.6 Optional
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Match</a> as phrased in version 1.123</b>, over the <b><a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0104.html">objection of RobS of Network
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Inference</a></b> and JosD's abstention.</p>
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<p>Regarding "3.8 Bookmarkable Queries", DanC apologized for the
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tardiness of his action and asked about moving it to an objective. A
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strawpoll showed several in favor. We subsequently <a
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href="#res-addrqr-obj">adopted an amended version as an
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objective</a>.</p>
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<p>The group discussed "3.10 Result Limits". The synergy with sorting
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was noted. After discussion of the implementation costs of sorting and
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the trade-off between client and server compute power per user,
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opinions differed on the merit and/or necessity of limits without
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sorting. Library systems and other interactive systems were suggested
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as supporting use cases, as were mobile scenarios. AndyS suggested a
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<a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jul/0000.html">public
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comment from Chris Wilper</a> supports this requirement, as do
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limitations of JDBC drivers. RobS reported experience with a 3+ tier
|
|
architecture where sorting and limits were handled outside the query
|
|
system. RobS remained unconvinced that limit was essential. DanC
|
|
raised the possibility of demoting it to an objective, but that was
|
|
not supported by a critical mass, so we <b id="res-limit-req">RESOLVED
|
|
to adopt requirement "3.10 Result Limits"</b> over the <b><a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0104.html"
|
|
>objection of RobS of Network Inference</a></b>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION: SimonR</b> draft a reply to Chris Wilper and send draft
|
|
to WG mailing list.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Regarding 3.11 Iterative Query, the editor was advised to remove it
|
|
until such time as more support becomes evident.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC noted that this exhausted the pending requirements and noted
|
|
that WG members would need to generate some support for new
|
|
requirements before they would be given time on group agendas.</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="objs">Pending Objectives</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion of 4.1 Human-friendly Syntax resulted in support for
|
|
addition of the word "easily", after which we <b>RESOLVED to adopt
|
|
objective 4.1 Human-friendly Syntax</b>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>The group discussed objective "4.2 Provenance". About 5 known
|
|
implementations were noted. EricP noted the importance of this feature
|
|
for building trust in social systems, and KendallC noted the value to
|
|
security applications. DanC asked if the research in KendallC's lab
|
|
showed diverse designs or common patters; KendallC replied that there
|
|
are a few different designs, but the most common one is quads. JosD
|
|
asked if the URI sufficed as a provenance mechanism and KendallC
|
|
answered positively.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>RobS expressed a concern about defining provenance, that it might
|
|
go beyond the scope of this group. DanC concurred; it seems to be at
|
|
the edge of our scope.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>AndyS clarified that the SOURCE mechanism in the BRQL spec is not
|
|
about provenance; it's about data management; Jena supports "remove
|
|
this model[i.e. graph]. replace with that model..."; a straightforward
|
|
next step is to offer that to the user in the query language.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>SimonR reported that while iTQL supports quads, it is not used very
|
|
often, except for security applications.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>A poll showed a continued critical mass of support, but not
|
|
consensus. The chair did not put the question, since discussion
|
|
continues to yield new arguments.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION KendallC, AndyS</b>: write up a new wording of 4.2
|
|
Provenance that focuses on data management.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion of "4.3 Non-existent Triples" showed that "in the
|
|
queried graph" would be a useful clarification. DanC estimated that
|
|
this feature would be costly to specify; support remained above a
|
|
critical mass, and we <b>RESOLVED: "4.3 Non-existent Triples"
|
|
accepted as a design objective</b>; AndyS and Jos abstaining.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion of "4.5 Aggregate Query" showed that various
|
|
members of the group understood it to mean different things.
|
|
<b>ACTION SimonR</b>: offer a replacement for 4.5 focussed on union query.</p>
|
|
<p>Discussion of "4.9 Boolean Results" suggested that it was overly
|
|
detailed for a design objective. We <b>RESOLVED to adopt as a
|
|
design objective "yes/no questions should be straightforward to
|
|
express"</b>, giving editor perhaps more than the usual license to
|
|
exercise editorial judgement.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Proponents of "4.4 User-specifiable Serialization" were
|
|
sufficiently confident that our design would satisfy them
|
|
that they didn't need it explicitly in the document.
|
|
<b>ACTION Kendall</b>: remove 4.4 User-specifiable Serialization
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>In discussion of "4.8 Literal Search", the editor asked if what we
|
|
mean is really just string literals, and several answered yes. We
|
|
<b>RESOLVED to accept "4.8 Literal Search", clarified to refer to
|
|
string literals, as a design objective</b>, with EricP and RobS
|
|
abstaining.</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="initdn2">Initial Design Positions, revisited</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC briefly introduced <cite><a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL - A Query Language for
|
|
RDF</a></cite> and observed that it seemed to be consistent with input
|
|
from a critical mass of the working group regarding an initial
|
|
strawman design, and polled the group for support. RobS and JeffP of
|
|
Network Inference remained unconvinced that this was a useful
|
|
direction.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>Then we went to dinner, hosted by Network Inference.</em></p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="usecase">New Use cases (ebXML registry, XQuery/RDF)</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION Hendler</b>: work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web
|
|
services use case. CONTINUES from <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0799.html">2004-06-29
|
|
telcon</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0032.html">ACTION:
|
|
write up ebXML registry UC</a>; there was considerable support for adding it. <b>ACTION Kendall</b>: add ebXML UC.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>RobS noted that the use case discusses using stepwise query
|
|
refinement to navigate a concept hierarchy, and that perhaps
|
|
concept-hierarchy-browsing is a better technique in that case.
|
|
<b>ACTION: RobS</b> write email to Farrukh.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>JeffP reported that he participates, along with FarrukhN, in the <a
|
|
href=
|
|
"http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=regrep"
|
|
>OASIS regrep TC</a>, which is adapting their <a href=
|
|
"http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/regrep/documents/2.5/specs/ebrim-2.5.pdf"
|
|
>registry information model specification (PDF)</a> to use OWL. JeffP
|
|
mailed the WG regarding some <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0087.html">work
|
|
in progress on ebXML RegRep draft OWL to RIM mapping</a>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>EricP reported on some brainstorming on use cases relevant to
|
|
section <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter#XQueryBinding">1.5
|
|
Relationship to XQuery</a> from the WG charter. An example of using
|
|
RDF data in an XQuery system: querying the Edgar database and
|
|
integrating XML and RDF sources into the one query.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC asked, regarding XQuery/RDF query integration scenarios: is
|
|
loose coupling sufficient? is there motivation for anything more than
|
|
string concatenation to make up queries, and XML to return results?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion explored various approaches without any particular
|
|
conclusion.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>We then broke into two groups.</em></p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="brqlw">BRQL Walkthru break-out</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>In one break-out room, the group reviewed <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a>, with AndyS noting
|
|
issues in the document (resulting in v1.11). Some members also took <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc#T18-09-53">IRC notes
|
|
starting 18:09:53Z</a>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION Jos</b>: explain log:includes to inform the discussion of
|
|
SOURCE (nee provenance)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION AndyS</b>: explain DESCRIBE design implicit in BRQL spec.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION DanC</b>: explain evolution of log:semantics/log:includes
|
|
from uri-is-graph to uri-is-doc in cwm, to inform discussion of
|
|
SOURCE</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION DaveB</b>: explain the main uses seen for redland
|
|
contexts with respect to the provenance</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC asked what test coverage do we have; AndyS reported that for
|
|
RDQL, we have a test suite that is sufficiently complete to serve as a
|
|
guide for independent developers. For other BRQL features, test
|
|
development has only started; for example, a <a
|
|
href="http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/DAWG/Tests/dawg-tests.n3">manifest
|
|
of a few BRQL tests</a>. <b>ACTION Jos</b>: discuss test suite
|
|
documentation and maintenance with SteveH, EricP, AndyS, ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="xqfa">XQuery design exploration</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>RobS, EricP, and SimonR explored XQuery designs in another break-out. When they returned, EricP briefly showed a <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/16-FA/">report</a>, including two examples:</p>
|
|
|
|
<table border="1">
|
|
<tr><th>Description</th><th>RDQL</th><th>XQuery</th></tr>
|
|
<tr>
|
|
<td>vcard</td>
|
|
<td>
|
|
<pre class="query">SELECT ?family , ?given
|
|
WHERE (?vcard vcard:FN "Alice Antwerp")
|
|
(?vcard vcard:N ?name)
|
|
(?name vcard:Family ?family)
|
|
(?name vcard:Given ?given)
|
|
USING vcard FOR <http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#></pre>
|
|
</td>
|
|
<td>
|
|
<pre class="query">DECLARE ELEMENT NAMESPACE vcard = <http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#>
|
|
FOR $vcard IN rdfNodes(),
|
|
$name IN rdfNodes(),
|
|
$family IN rdfNodes(),
|
|
$given IN rdfNodes()
|
|
WHERE asserted($vcard vcard:FN "Alice Antwerp"),
|
|
AND asserted($vcard vcard:N $name),
|
|
AND asserted($name vcard:Family $family),
|
|
AND asserted($name vcard:Given $given)
|
|
RETURN <p>$family $given</p></pre>
|
|
</td>
|
|
</tr>
|
|
<tr>
|
|
<td>selection on value</td>
|
|
<td>
|
|
<pre class="query">SELECT ?resource
|
|
WHERE (?resource info:age ?age)
|
|
AND ?age >= 24
|
|
USING info FOR <http://example.org/peopleInfo#></pre>
|
|
</td>
|
|
<td>
|
|
<pre class="query">DECLARE ELEMENT NAMESPACE info = <http://example.org/peopleInfo#>
|
|
FOR $resource IN rdfNodes(),
|
|
WHERE asserted($resource info:age $age)
|
|
AND ?age >= 24
|
|
RETURN <foo>$resource</foo></pre>
|
|
</td>
|
|
</tr>
|
|
</table>
|
|
|
|
<p>EricP and SimonR briefly presented an Abstract Model of Where Clause:</p>
|
|
<pre>
|
|
N is the set of RDF nodes.
|
|
$ is the set of variables.
|
|
Pos := N u $
|
|
C := Pos × Pos × Pos
|
|
Cexp := field(C, AND, OR) ... c1 AND c2 , c1 OR c2
|
|
B := $ × '=' × N
|
|
Bexp := field(B, AND, OR)
|
|
f(c ∈ C) -> b ∈ Bexp
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="ucrpub">Toward updated Use Cases and Requirements publication</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC asked the editor for a publication target and KendallC
|
|
suggested 1 August. We reviewed pending suggested changes:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b id="res-addrqr-obj">RESOLVED: to adopt 4.X Addressable Query
|
|
Results as <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0098.html">proposed
|
|
15July</a> as a design objective, SimonR abstaining.</b></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed <cite><a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0091.html">Proposed
|
|
XQuery requirement and/or objective</a></cite> without reaching
|
|
critical mass around any particular wording. <b>ACTION SimonR</b>:
|
|
write a document discussing tradeoffs with adapting XQuery as an RDF
|
|
query language for discussion thru the September meeting in Bristol.
|
|
Howard, among others, expressed interest in contributing.
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Following up on various indications of support for a disjuction
|
|
requirement, RobS offered <cite><a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0085.html"
|
|
>New requirement: disjunction</a></cite>. After a poll showed a
|
|
critical mass of support, we <b>RESOLVED to adopt as a requirement
|
|
"The query language must include the capability to restrict matches on
|
|
a queried graph based on a disjunction of graph patterns, at least one
|
|
of which must be satisfied."</b>, JosD abstaining. <b>ACTION RobS</b>:
|
|
help the editor find supporting use cases for disjuction.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>ACTION KendallC</b>: draft revision, toward updating our public
|
|
WD, delivery ~next wed. <b>ACTION RobS</b>: review it.
|
|
<b>ACTION Howard</b>: to offer editorial feedback.
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="initdn3">Initial Design/Strawman query language</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC suggested that the lack of critical mass of support around any
|
|
particular XQuery-related objective, requirement, or design at this
|
|
point merited the attention of the Semantic Web Coordination
|
|
Group. <b>ACTION DanC</b>: notify Semantic Web CG of risks around the
|
|
"1.5 Relationship with XQuery" scope of our charter.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Candidates with a critical mass of support appear to be <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-RDQL-20040109/">RDQL</a>
|
|
of 9 Jan 2004 and <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a>
|
|
v1.11. DanC advised the WG that starting with fewer, more mature
|
|
features was likely to help us go faster, but a poll showed more
|
|
support for BRQL than RDQL.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC observed that while we do not have consensus, we do have a
|
|
critical mass off support for BRQL, and discussion of alternatives at
|
|
this point does not seem to yield new arguments; further, selection of
|
|
a strawman at this point is important in order to stay on schedule. We
|
|
<b>RESOLVED to adopt <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a> v1.11 as our
|
|
strawman query language design</b>, over the <b><a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0101.html"
|
|
>objection of RobS and JeffP of Network Inference</a></b>
|
|
and HowardK's abstention.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>A brief review yielded a few more issues:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>NEW ISSUE</b>: re CONSTRUCT: what happens when variable are not
|
|
bound?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><b>NEW ISSUE</b>: BRQL 1.11 does not support yes/no queries sufficiently</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>YoshioF asked if we're going to have other strawmen, and DanC noted
|
|
that SimonR's action means we plan to discuss at least one other.</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="protexp">Exploration of protocol designs</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>We explored a few protocol designs: <a
|
|
href="http://tap.stanford.edu/tap/getdata.html">GetData</a> from the
|
|
TAP project, Joseki, cwm's definitiveService, and Tucana's RMI
|
|
experience. Notes from IRC <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc#T23-39-22" >starting
|
|
23:38:08Z</a> and continuing <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc" >16Jul(UTC)</a> have some
|
|
details</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>We <b>RESOLVED to thank the host, Network Inference</b>, with
|
|
applause, and adjourned the meeting.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h2 id="rdl">Reading List</h2>
|
|
|
|
<p>Participants in the meeting are expected to be familiar
|
|
with the following documents:</p>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li><a href="DesignEvaluations">Design Evaluations</a> v 1.14 or later</li>
|
|
<li><a href="UseCases">Use Cases and Requirements</a> v1.119 or later</li>
|
|
<li><a href="http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/">DAWG Query Sketch Test Cases</a> Version 0.3, 23-06-2004 or later</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>Participants are invited to read:</p>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li><cite><a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL - A Query Language
|
|
for RDF</a></cite> v1.9 of 9 July or later</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>If you joined the WG recently, you may want to review <a
|
|
href="ftf1">records of the April meeting in Amsterdam.</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3>Presentation Materials and Meeting Records</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>Presentation materials are part of the meeting record, and accessible
|
|
meeting records are important. An easy way to submit them to the record
|
|
without clogging up everybody's mailbox is to mail them to
|
|
<tt>www-archive@w3.org</tt> as attachments, then find them in the <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/">archive</a>, and send
|
|
a pointer to <tt>public-rdf-dawg@w3.org</tt>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>The <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2002/03/email_attachment_formats.html">guidelines for
|
|
email attachments</a> are relevant:</p>
|
|
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
<p>...avoid formats that are virus prone, proprietary or platform
|
|
dependent. For example, whenever possible you should use HTML instead of MS
|
|
Word, PowerPoint or PDF. (Ideally, use XHTML or HTML4.)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>If you must use a proprietary or platform-dependent format, please also
|
|
include an alternate version in a universally readable format, such as HTML
|
|
or plain text, if possible. If you cannot, then at least include a format
|
|
that has widely available free viewers, if possible.</p>
|
|
</blockquote>
|
|
|
|
<p>If you use powerpoint, please give us the powerpoint sources plus a PDF
|
|
export plus some sort of text dump (RTF?).</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h2 id="chlog">Change Log</h2>
|
|
<pre><!-- log goes on next line, not this one -->
|
|
$Log: ftf2.html,v $
|
|
Revision 1.37 2004/08/05 21:43:53 connolly
|
|
minutes no longer "in progress"; were approved 2004-07-20
|
|
spell-checked
|
|
linked thoughts from observers
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.36 2004/07/21 02:24:14 connolly
|
|
HowardK abstained from the strawman decision,
|
|
offered to help with SimonR's action,
|
|
and a few other tweaks.
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.35 2004/07/20 16:30:10 connolly
|
|
clarified RobS's ebXML action
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.34 2004/07/20 16:27:42 connolly
|
|
cited some objections
|
|
s/ericP/EricP/, s/robS/RobS/
|
|
fixed disjunction decision
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.33 2004/07/19 15:45:31 connolly
|
|
XQuery design doc targeted at Sep meeting near BRS
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.32 2004/07/19 14:20:39 connolly
|
|
fixed agenda/TOC link
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.31 2004/07/19 14:19:40 connolly
|
|
tail end of IRC notes recovered; typo fixed;
|
|
seeking clarity on ebXML action
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.30 2004/07/18 08:08:14 connolly
|
|
moved agenda to top, since it serves as TOC
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.29 2004/07/18 07:31:31 connolly
|
|
typo, table markup, distinctive title
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.28 2004/07/18 07:25:51 connolly
|
|
1st draft minutes done
|
|
decision markup tweaked
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.27 2004/07/18 06:08:15 connolly
|
|
minutes: objectives, strawman part 2
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.26 2004/07/18 05:30:00 connolly
|
|
minutes requirements item
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.25 2004/07/18 04:50:51 connolly
|
|
summarized item on XSRQL, rules
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.24 2004/07/18 04:28:03 connolly
|
|
summarized initial design positions agendum
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.23 2004/07/18 03:48:49 connolly
|
|
starting minutes. roll call done.
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.22 2004/07/17 15:44:32 connolly
|
|
cited IRC logs
|
|
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Revision 1.21 2004/07/09 19:05:38 connolly
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cited recent BRQL draft
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Revision 1.20 2004/07/08 20:12:02 connolly
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another link re the nifty image
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Revision 1.19 2004/07/08 20:02:04 connolly
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fixed telcon UTC time
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Revision 1.18 2004/07/08 19:58:23 connolly
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removed "in progress" from .sig
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Revision 1.17 2004/07/08 19:56:57 connolly
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shuffled agenda details a bit
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Revision 1.16 2004/07/08 18:46:25 connolly
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noted algae/rules extension
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Revision 1.15 2004/07/08 18:38:12 connolly
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cite swrl, N3QL
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Revision 1.14 2004/07/08 17:47:58 connolly
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moved phone info under venue; added IRC. refined Convene item
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Revision 1.13 2004/07/08 17:39:06 connolly
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telcon agenda time is no longer TBD, though it's still
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subject to negotiation
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Revision 1.12 2004/07/08 17:37:23 connolly
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detailed agenda emerges
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Revision 1.11 2004/07/08 16:30:53 connolly
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finalizing goals, participants, etc.
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Revision 1.10 2004/07/08 16:17:39 connolly
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registration is closed
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Revision 1.9 2004/07/08 16:12:07 connolly
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telcon res link
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Revision 1.8 2004/07/07 23:09:26 connolly
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cwm bug persists; ftf2-formal is .n3 again
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Revision 1.7 2004/07/07 22:57:37 connolly
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cwm bug is fixed; ftf2-formal is now .rdf
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Revision 1.6 2004/07/06 15:47:46 eric
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f2t teleconf details
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Revision 1.5 2004/07/01 22:41:40 connolly
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(connolly) Changed through Jigsaw.
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Revision 1.4 2004/06/28 15:43:36 connolly
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updated evaluations w.r.t. KC's summary
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Revision 1.3 2004/06/28 15:36:20 connolly
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collecting evaluations
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Revision 1.2 2004/06/18 22:10:17 connolly
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link to "toward intial design..." thread
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Revision 1.1 2004/06/18 22:05:52 connolly
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first draft of ftf2 materials</pre>
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