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1357 lines
48 KiB
1357 lines
48 KiB
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 10 Feb
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2010</title>
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</head>
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<body>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>10 Feb 2010</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>tpa, [IPcaller], Dsr, Doug_Schepers, hhalpin,
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+1.510.931.aaaa, manu, melvster1, bblfish, +0774811aabb,
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+049172247aacc, +1.617.838.aadd</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>hhalpin</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>melvster</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2010-02-10T16:00-17:00GMT</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">Action Reminders</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">Discussion of high-level
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discussions</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">PaySwarm Discussion</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item05">Manu Sporny and Doug Schepers on
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Payswarm</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 10 February
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2010</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> ah. All alone
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again.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> Zakim left the
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channel</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i can't call in
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right now, will lurk in irc ... try to get on later</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> uhh</p>
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<p class='phone'>ill try :)</p>
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<p class='phone'>any quick tips?</p>
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<p class='phone'>(not scribed before)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> scribenick:
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melvster</p>
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<p class='phone'>thanks!</p>
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<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2010-02-10T16:00-17:00GMT</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> scribe:
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melvster</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> yup?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>AnitaD</cite>> yes, Anita
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Doehler</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>AnitaD</cite>> AD is the German
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number</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
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approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> approve meeting
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minutes?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> APPROVED: SWXG WG
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Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> meeting next week dick
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hardt</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
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again Wed. February 17th: Dick Hardt on OpenID and WRAP</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: meet
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again Wed. February 17th: Dick Hardt on OpenID and WRAP</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1 meet again</p>
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<h3 id="item02">Action Reminders</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> action reminders, see
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weekly agenda<br />
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... first step high level principles</p>
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<h3 id="item03">Discussion of high-level discussions</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> there've been some
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emails</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0019.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0019.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1 for consensus</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> good discussion, we may
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want to try and reach consensus</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> a few different
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responses, perhaps we can restart the discussion<br />
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... perhaps misunderstanding over wording<br />
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... some of the discussion was related to apps rather than
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UGC</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 to
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misunderstanding :)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> for example 1st principle
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-- what you see depends on who you are</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, so for 1 the
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wording needs to be improoved a little</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> UGC depends on my
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relationship to the visitor, depending on what they can see</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> so the intetnion is
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good</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> im ok with that 1st
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principle<br />
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... christine did some good work putting this in a table</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks#The_Terminology">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks#The_Terminology</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> good thought, perhaps
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empahsis should be on the person publishing it</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "Who sees what
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depends on who they are"?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> or the role they are
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instantiating</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> tricky to word,
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difficult to get it right</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> a person can be
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fulfilling different purposes at different times</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> horrible idea</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> If you want, I can
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put out Chris Saad's point</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> idea -- each principle
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should be a haiku :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "Why? Maybe the
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site is designed to have a water cooler style 'what's</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> popular' approach
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(like most sites today) - why mandate a personalized</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> experience?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> palindrome</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0025.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0025.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> no-one I can find
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objected.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> 2nd principle, no
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objections recorded</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> taking me a while to
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catch up</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> comments?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> just returning to the
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first principle<br />
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... some apps dont want a peronalized experienced</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ""Who sees what CAN
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depend on who they are"</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Chris Saad made the
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point that it should not be mandated</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Aphorism is the
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word I was looking for. Each one of those lines should be an
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aphorism</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> (or a tweet)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> takes back to conversations
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in santa clara and vodafone<br />
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... what differentiates the social web<br />
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... in santa clara we discussed 'why is created a friend
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different to following an rss feed'</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes: it is
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meaningful in a social context to know who you are
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communicating</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> agreed, that even in twitter
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there is an implicit bidirectional connection</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> with</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> social web seems to be
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stronger bidirectionality<br />
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... bidirectionality implies a different experience</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'm happy to buy
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that different experience line, I was just bringing up Chris's
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point.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> What you tell
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(publish) to someone depends on who they are in your social
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network.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> idea: "What you
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tell (publish) to someone depends on who they are in your
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social network."</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> its not social unless
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there's bidirectional relationship</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Will having a
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different veiw, depending on who you are, be necessarily be</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESTful?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0069.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0069.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> bringing up chris saads
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point</p>
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<p class='phone'>hi</p>
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<p class='phone'>dont have a mic here im afriad ...!</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> no problems, henry
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will talk about REST</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> will it be RESTful</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> kinda obvious but
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information you disclose in a social network is based entirely
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on language, as oppose to real life social interactions</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> important part of the
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web is that documents should link to other documents<br />
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... one way of doing social networks is to copy information
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from one network to another<br />
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... one of the key elements of the social web is to reference
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using links</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> or based on
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volition</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> email, for example, can
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be copied from inbox to inbox<br />
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... but in general there's no identifier</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> yes</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> if one speaks more in
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terms of linking between things, we get closer to the level of
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web architecture</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> agree with anitaD / DKA
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that connections are important, seems not terribly RESTful, but
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im ok with that, in certain contexts<br />
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... eg between friends you can access certain URIs<br />
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... that is sort of restful in a wierd way</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 to second (Chris
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also said "sure")</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>anitad:</cite> any comments to the 2nd
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high level principle?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> And I agree with
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first, but we might want to clarify the relationship to REST in
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our text.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>anitad:</cite> no ...<br />
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... 3rd principle</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes for 3. That's a
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key REST principle</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I agree with the
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third. Chris disagreed..</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>anitad:</cite> You can expose your
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content (User Generated Content) to different > Social
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Networks or Social Applications, without the need to store the
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> content in these networks/applications.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I think Chris
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mainly was worried that we were *mandating*, but then we're not
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looking for requirements but guiding principles</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>anitad:</cite> currently often need to
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store UGC on several different servers<br />
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... was that clear?<br />
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... continuing principle 4<br />
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... You can define the access control on a per item basis,
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either per contact, or per group.<br />
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... again referring to UGC<br />
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... user should be able to define access control to different
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attributes of UGC</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> what is "an item"</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> are we maybe missing the
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identity of the user?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> good question</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> is global identity one
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of the principles</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> we discussed this
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internally</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i think they are
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instantiating a role</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> depends on terminology
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used</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> I have a question
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about the principles...</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> users can have different
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profiles</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Also users can have
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multiple legal identities (e.g. dual citizens)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i operate as an
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admin, and as a user, i am the same person</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> i dont always need to
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disclose my real identity</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> my identity is
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immaterial its the role im using</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> role</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> notion of type of
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identity is not so important, but we need a unique name<br />
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... name should refer uniquely to one thing, needs to be
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global<br />
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... to carry out the principles we need a global way of
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referring to something<br />
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... wondering if that's something that follows? or should it be
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a principle?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> identity should be a
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principle... it doesn't have to be global</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> you cant force someone to
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use one global identity</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> but you do need it to
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talk about them - FOAF, VCARD, etc</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> reference</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Maybe "Resources
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should have global identifiers (URIs), even if access to them
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is restricted on a contextual basis"</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Basically, that is
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the "Web" in "Social Web" :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1 what harry
|
|
said</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> you dont need to force
|
|
someone, but you need to identify they globally, you just need
|
|
a handle on them, it's not a global identity, but in certain
|
|
contexts they'll know it's me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i think its a
|
|
principle</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> doesn't need to be
|
|
global identifier.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> you can also refer to me
|
|
as 'henry story', or bblfish, but in a global name, we need to
|
|
give people global name, so that we can know which resources to
|
|
give access to who</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> just needs to be
|
|
identifier.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> somehow the user needs
|
|
to identify, so that the website can for example show a
|
|
picture</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>who's speaking?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> doug?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> hi doug</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> identifier of unique
|
|
resource/entity ... all identifiers of same resource/entity
|
|
should be owl:sameAs'ed ... and presto</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> mostly wondering if this
|
|
group is going to apply principles to some of the leading
|
|
social networks out there ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Manu, so we have a
|
|
list of 50 top social networks we were going to test these and
|
|
use-cases against</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> (looking for wiki
|
|
list)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> might be helpul, and also
|
|
the reverse, eg finding something that the leading soc nets do
|
|
that are not in the list ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> this is a very good
|
|
idea</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> important to refresh
|
|
this</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> we didn't really go
|
|
into the depth which is proposed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> haha!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> covered 50 top social
|
|
networks, inc. mobile, good suggestion to apply to soc nets</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> and then be out of
|
|
date a few days later</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> any site/service
|
|
should be able to create their own Identifiers (URIs) for their
|
|
members.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> all members should
|
|
be able to assert "I am also *that* member of *that* site" --
|
|
and perfect world, each service could verify that assertion</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "Resources should
|
|
have global identifiers (URIs), even if relationship to them
|
|
are restricted on a contextual basis"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Broader than
|
|
people</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> could we deal with
|
|
henry's comment, by adding principle 6: something like
|
|
resources should have global identifiers even if access is
|
|
restricted<br />
|
|
... you dont necessarily have to have the same access
|
|
permission</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> "global identifier"
|
|
remains troubling to me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> "global" isn't
|
|
correct</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> it's not the only
|
|
identifier of the entity</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> global means
|
|
unique</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Universal Resource
|
|
Identifiers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "Resources should
|
|
have universal/unique/uniform identifiers (URIs), even if
|
|
relationship to them are restricted on a contextual basis"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> unique rather than
|
|
global perhaps? universal? uniform?<br />
|
|
... might be a nice addition?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> Resources should
|
|
have identifiers (URIs).</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> period</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "Resources should
|
|
have identifiers (URIs), even if relationship to them are
|
|
restricted on a contextual basis"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> it would be
|
|
interesting to get the Web Architecture people to look at
|
|
those</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i agree on identifier
|
|
but dunno about globalness</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ok, happy to drop
|
|
globalness.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 on last
|
|
principle</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> that works :-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> maybe its called
|
|
for?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> principle 5. You can
|
|
communicate with connections no matter which Social Network or
|
|
Social Application you share.<br />
|
|
... that's it ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: Social
|
|
Web XG adopts (puts in final report) Anita's principles plus a
|
|
URI principle as our guiding principles</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> DKA, you wanted to
|
|
suggest we at least reach consensus on the idea of publishing
|
|
some principles into the final report + a survey of how current
|
|
social networks show these...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> bblfish?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> i support the proposed
|
|
resolution, but also the idea of building outwards</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> +1 though I think
|
|
we should be open to improovements to the lanauge</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Yuk?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I would also like to
|
|
build up or out</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Yoshiaki?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> like the idea of looking at
|
|
current soc nets and apps. and showcase these principles</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We can wordsmith a
|
|
bit in the wiki</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I'm a little taken
|
|
aback by going to resolution stage</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> that's fine</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> i put a page called
|
|
final report in the wiki, ill put the principles in there</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> We can also move fast
|
|
in W3C when necessary.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: Social
|
|
Web XG adopts (puts in final report) Anita's principles plus a
|
|
URI principle as our guiding principles</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> sure</p><a name=
|
|
"action01" id="action01"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to put these principles in new
|
|
wiki page [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-124
|
|
- Put these principles in new wiki page [on Harry Halpin - due
|
|
2010-02-17].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>yoshiaki</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Thanks Anita!</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item04">PaySwarm Discussion</h3>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item05">Manu Sporny and Doug Schepers on Payswarm</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> have a special guest on
|
|
the phone</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> thanks anita</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> manu sporny and doug
|
|
schepers on payswarm<br />
|
|
... thankful about your work with html / rdfa<br />
|
|
... doug is one of the api experts at the w3c</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * The overall goal of
|
|
PaySwarm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * build ability to
|
|
buy/sell digital content into browsers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * We are discussing a
|
|
system that has been implemented commercially</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * bitmunk.com (website
|
|
and peer-to-peer PaySwarm network)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * Digital Contracts
|
|
and Electronic Signatures as a basis for</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> licensing and
|
|
copyright-aware digital content distribution</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * E-SIGN Act of
|
|
2000</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * The typical
|
|
participants on a PaySwarm network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * content owner</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * The Sales
|
|
Verificatin Authority</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * sellers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * buyers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * How pricing is
|
|
calculated on a PaySwarm network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * content owner
|
|
royalty + seller distribution fee + network fees</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * Licenses are sold
|
|
separately from data</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * A typical content
|
|
transaction on a PaySwarm network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> overall goal is to buy and
|
|
sell digital content in web browsers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> 1. content owner
|
|
registers content with SVA and sets royalties</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> 2. buyers search for
|
|
content to buy or visits a website with</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> semantic markup or a
|
|
link to initiate a purchase contract</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> 3. buyer purchases
|
|
content from the swarm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> 4. buyer automatically
|
|
joins swarm for re-distribution</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> 5. buyer becomes
|
|
seller and gets a cut of each download</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * More resources</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * PaySwarm FAQ:
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-faq.html">http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-faq.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> * PaySwarm Use Cases:
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases.html">http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> mobile, and from
|
|
corporations to customers, and P2P<br />
|
|
... there's a site called bitmunk.com ... im the founder of
|
|
digital bazaar</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> )</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> me too lost manu
|
|
for a second</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> it's more than high level,
|
|
we have a lot of details worked out</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu</cite>> hmm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> I think it is</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> please feel free to ask
|
|
questions as we go alon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes we hear you</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So basically let's
|
|
do questions at end</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and add yourself as
|
|
usual using "q+"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> basis of payswarm is using
|
|
digital contracts and electronic signatures as a way to encode
|
|
content and exchange<br />
|
|
... esign act of 2000, is a basis<br />
|
|
... if you can verify a person's identity (eg bankcard /
|
|
electron signature) or drivers licence, their use of that is as
|
|
binding as a pen signature<br />
|
|
... this opens doors to using digital contracts<br />
|
|
... not just small priced, but also high priced, up to $150,000
|
|
is enforcable in the US</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> lost manu</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> very echoy</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> sadly, IP telephony
|
|
is really not up to what it could be</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ouch! cell
|
|
phone</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> calling in on cell phone</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ...some drop-outs
|
|
happening...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ...maybe he fell down a
|
|
well...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> bzzzzt
|
|
crscsssdfssdsd bzzttt</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> 4 major participants<br />
|
|
... content owner (creates digital content) music label, music
|
|
studio, home studio, research, anything digital<br />
|
|
... sales verification authority, identity management, collect
|
|
royalties, distribute royalties, making sure the network is
|
|
operating corrections, police DOS, eg digital bazaar,
|
|
itunes/amazon could<br />
|
|
... sellers<br />
|
|
... buyers<br />
|
|
... buyers and sellers are almost interchangable<br />
|
|
... a buyer can become a source, just like bittorrent<br />
|
|
... thats how we add scalability<br />
|
|
... questions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> no that seems
|
|
simple</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> you have 4 types of
|
|
users</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> or 4 roles</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> theres a lot of complexity
|
|
behind the scenes<br />
|
|
... pricing is calculated, you have to allow pricing
|
|
independently<br />
|
|
... content owner is allowed to set royalties, independent of
|
|
the sellers prices<br />
|
|
... sellers then set their prices<br />
|
|
... then there are network fees<br />
|
|
... final price is, royalties plus sellers distribution fee
|
|
plus network fee<br />
|
|
... spec allows more complexity<br />
|
|
... the network we separate purchasing a licence with
|
|
purchasing a good<br />
|
|
... eg you can purchase a low definition or high definition
|
|
stream<br />
|
|
... typically how the content industry would like it to
|
|
work</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> sounds sensible</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> though I would not
|
|
have thought about doing that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> typical transaction ...
|
|
content owner goes to the SVA and registers their content for
|
|
sale, by uploading a reference file<br />
|
|
... these are my royalties</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> it seems like it is
|
|
crucial to allow separate pricing, and that does keep it rather
|
|
simple.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> may some issues
|
|
about "network" i.e. in distributed apps where you get to one
|
|
app via another one...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> once registered on the
|
|
network, buyers will then find the file on the network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> like going to a ad
|
|
via Google :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> who gets the
|
|
cash?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> doesnt have to happen on one
|
|
website, the system is decentralized</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> just the last
|
|
network?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>thx:</cite> eg can be download from a
|
|
blog<br />
|
|
... part of your pay goes to support a blog<br />
|
|
... you can embed data using rdfa / micrformats<br />
|
|
... buyers find information through a web based mechanism<br />
|
|
... they can buy from an individual or from the swarm<br />
|
|
... licence from one person<br />
|
|
... each piece of data from 1000's of people<br />
|
|
... hope it ends up driving distribution costs down<br />
|
|
... eg distributing movies in HD<br />
|
|
... dont need huge capacity, other people will help as they
|
|
have a financial incentive<br />
|
|
... buyers then seed files by default<br />
|
|
... payswarm faq<br />
|
|
... and payswarm use cases<br />
|
|
... things we want to support in version 2.0 e.g.
|
|
identity<br />
|
|
... dont necessarily need that<br />
|
|
... v 2.0 we're going to try and build in identity / financial
|
|
management<br />
|
|
... that's a quick overview<br />
|
|
... questions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> "network
|
|
trails"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> how about the idea of
|
|
network trails<br />
|
|
... look at distributed networks, you may have several layers
|
|
to get to your content</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So let's say I go
|
|
to Youtube</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that then sends me
|
|
to a third-party, NoGoodTV</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I get content from
|
|
that.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Can Youtube get a
|
|
cut?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> on a low level, we're going
|
|
to use a bunch of REST api calls, json format, exchange pieces
|
|
of information for the transaction<br />
|
|
... send it to the SVA<br />
|
|
... then the purchase process starts<br />
|
|
... exchange between browser / SVA<br />
|
|
... could you elaborate on network trails?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes, "referrer" is
|
|
the right word</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> a chain of multiple
|
|
referrers, does everyone get a cut?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so they CAN be
|
|
compensated.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> currently no<br />
|
|
... doesnt make much sense from a business perspective</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> because that person
|
|
sends them traffic.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> why would they want to pay
|
|
some else</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> the referrer sends
|
|
them traffic.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> letting them sale
|
|
more</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> tpa? I also know
|
|
you've thought a bit about micropayments..</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> the seller would be able to
|
|
choose who else to pay ... we are moving away from the concept
|
|
of middle men on the network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> might be a surprisingly
|
|
popular option, to have referrers drive traffic to the long
|
|
tail<br />
|
|
... just throwing a thought out there</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.heppnetz.de/ontologies/goodrelations/v1">http://www.heppnetz.de/ontologies/goodrelations/v1</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> does this fit in with
|
|
goodrelations ontology?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>AnitaD:</cite> talked to mfhepp about
|
|
payswarm, and am sure we will end up integrating GR with
|
|
payswarm<br />
|
|
... one of the reasons we got involved with RDFa<br />
|
|
... in our company we have a firefox plugin<br />
|
|
... will work out all purchasable content on that page<br />
|
|
... can use that info to generate a contract<br />
|
|
... send it to the SVA<br />
|
|
... in the future the browser will scrape the info e.g. in rdfa
|
|
/ microformats, then uses that to figure out the contract and
|
|
send to the SVA</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> at imperial 1995, people
|
|
talked about micropayments, why hasnt it taken off? how are you
|
|
keeping the costs low?<br />
|
|
... fundamental to saving some content providers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> if I choose to refer
|
|
to a referrer to a seller, I should get a cut of the referrer's
|
|
cut ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> if I choose to refer
|
|
directly to a seller, I should get the entire referrer's
|
|
cut...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> by making the choice
|
|
of how I refer, I have chosen how the payment should be
|
|
made.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> face-to-face
|
|
business works well this way.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> I think that
|
|
empirically deciding "there will be no more middle men!" will
|
|
tend more to stifle business than to encourage it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> the same reason we
|
|
no longer talk about semantic web ;-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> its "linked data"
|
|
now :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> good idea
|
|
MacTed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>shepazu</cite>> ("don't make me
|
|
think")</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> good point, the problem is,
|
|
P2P / micro payments have a bad rap, interfaces were bothering
|
|
the user, eg for 1c 2c, most people couldnt be bothered to
|
|
reach for their wallets</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ( mhh interesting:
|
|
the identity problem resurges )</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> interactions costs were too
|
|
high<br />
|
|
... ROI was not there<br />
|
|
... systems not integrated into browser<br />
|
|
... you had to join evercoin etc.<br />
|
|
... wasnt a fundamental part of the web</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> makes sense :-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> more than anything
|
|
else, too many micropayment providers makes it too hard on the
|
|
purchaser</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> requires too much work on
|
|
the user's behalf, what you would ideally like you to do is
|
|
say, 'would you like to set your daily/monthly spending limit',
|
|
the browser would then operate within that limit</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 this browser
|
|
idea, was thinking about this when NYTimes tried to charge me
|
|
this morning :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> browser prompts you to
|
|
increase it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> largely because each
|
|
*seller* tended to have a single relationship with a
|
|
micropayment provider</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> visa transactions cost too
|
|
much</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> transaction
|
|
aggregation is obviously the way it has to be done</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> payswarm addresses each of
|
|
these issues<br />
|
|
... you put in $10 or $20 at a time</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> (yes NYTimes and
|
|
all the newspapers ask for $25 per year, and one never knows
|
|
ahead of time if one is ever going to read that much from that
|
|
site: hence the importance of micropayments. PaySwarm seems to
|
|
solve this, by making it standard, and make it easy to set
|
|
policies on payments for a site)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> creating a world standard
|
|
for payments couples with browser integration, will reduce
|
|
friction of transactions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> thanks, very helpful</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> when its seamless
|
|
there is less barrier to entry</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> are you feeling browser
|
|
vendors are helping?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> does PaySwarm aim
|
|
for exclusive arrangements with sellers, i.e., can a seller
|
|
*only* accept PaySwarm, or can they accept any/all
|
|
(micro)payment providers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> we think the most important
|
|
people to get on board is the large companies, newspapers,
|
|
music industries ... going to meet one of the big 4 music
|
|
labels today<br />
|
|
... if they music industry gets behind it, the web browser can
|
|
add a small fee<br />
|
|
... dont expect that browsers will not want to refuse this
|
|
market<br />
|
|
... havent approached browser manufacturers yet, but will in
|
|
the next few months, but mainly we're trying with the record
|
|
labels</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> shepazu, you wanted
|
|
to ask about karma</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> thanks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ... dont expect
|
|
that browsers manufatcturers will not be interested in a market
|
|
where they can take 1% of every transaction"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> source code released for
|
|
ref impl. hopefully api overview in the next month<br />
|
|
... in the context of the social web<br />
|
|
... and distributed management of a currency<br />
|
|
... eg amazon lets me know how many people have had successful
|
|
transactions with an entity<br />
|
|
... part of identity management (SVA) can also manage
|
|
reputation?<br />
|
|
... we need an identity management nexus, dont want to bite off
|
|
too much work<br />
|
|
... the system is distributed<br />
|
|
... financial payment system distributed<br />
|
|
... rating system distributed<br />
|
|
... 2nd aspect, what if you want to exchange karma<br />
|
|
... an analogy is MMORPG<br />
|
|
... world of warcraft millionaires<br />
|
|
... get magic swords and sell them on ebay<br />
|
|
... changing currencies<br />
|
|
... karma and reputation as a currency, can we distribute
|
|
that?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> it's true it could
|
|
help adoption to be able to work with game money</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> game money, real money,
|
|
reputation are mechanisms of distributing credit</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> because then one
|
|
could start without getting through big government agencies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> might make it easier to do
|
|
some social networking things<br />
|
|
... might now be just about money, something built into the
|
|
browser, that can be used as a part of exchange<br />
|
|
... in music there's cash and reputation, you can trade one or
|
|
the other<br />
|
|
... could tell that to music companies, but it certainly has
|
|
context in the social web<br />
|
|
... how can people trade reputation among each other<br />
|
|
... unlike money, it's not a scarce resource</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> you can start growing
|
|
without the overhead of banks etc. can get really big testing
|
|
grounds</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> the currency of exchange
|
|
does not have to be USD EUR etc. can be something else</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> should end the call
|
|
soonish, may be some standardization, we did have micropayments
|
|
in the initial charter<br />
|
|
... what's the current state of play</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> focussed on getting w3c
|
|
interested, and getting people into the w3c, mobile carriers,
|
|
app stores, standardized app stores<br />
|
|
... buying and selling research data<br />
|
|
... artists generating work for you<br />
|
|
... primary focus is getting as many people as possible, then
|
|
getting those people to go to the w3c</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> member
|
|
organizations in this xg could help if they want to.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> if swxg says payswarm
|
|
should be standarized would be great, and helpful</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> i.e. endorse a
|
|
charter etc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> w3c already tried
|
|
micropayments in the 90s<br />
|
|
... dont want to fail at it again<br />
|
|
... may be some resistance to doing this<br />
|
|
... w3c may be cautious, conservative on certain issues, due to
|
|
reputation concerns<br />
|
|
... best way to overcome objections, is to find major
|
|
stakeholders<br />
|
|
... wont come from browser vendors<br />
|
|
... opera maybe, but browser vendors in general not, more
|
|
newspapers, movie houses, record labels</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> games</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ...mobile operators who
|
|
want to have interoperable app stores...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> would be good to get
|
|
bankers interested, paypal, amazon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> after that see where we can
|
|
go</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> though perhaps the
|
|
W3C could do an XG on this</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> urge w3c to take thison</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> maybe an XG for
|
|
this?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> probably the next
|
|
step<br />
|
|
... while we're marshalling stakeholders create an XG
|
|
perhaps<br />
|
|
... trying to bootstrap, xg would be appropriate, necessary but
|
|
not sufficient</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> thanks for
|
|
presenting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> where do you put the
|
|
money?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> the money is kept with the
|
|
SVA<br />
|
|
... we have digital money and digital certificates<br />
|
|
... you're operating as a pseudo bank<br />
|
|
... governments dont like it when you do that<br />
|
|
... SVA handle the money<br />
|
|
... so you dont have an issue in the browser of handling
|
|
money<br />
|
|
... there isnt even legislation for that<br />
|
|
... you take a regular credit card<br />
|
|
... add money to an SVA</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> so it's Paypal
|
|
redux</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> that is linked to the
|
|
browser</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> I have to drop off call
|
|
- sorry! Very interesting presentation. Vodafone might be
|
|
interested in participating in an XG on this topic, for the
|
|
record...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> it's not anonymous</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ciao</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>manu:</cite> completely the other way,
|
|
there needs to be strong identity<br />
|
|
... anonymous payments is an interesting concept, but it starts
|
|
raising red flags to regulatory agencies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
|
|
meetings</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, hhalpin, I
|
|
don't understand 'trackbot, end meetings'. Please refer to
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc</a>
|
|
for help</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> thanks, end of
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> thank you guys</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to put
|
|
these principles in new wiki page [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2010/02/10 17:27:01 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/speaker/speaks/
|
|
Succeeded: s/cant/can/
|
|
Succeeded: s/Doug: overall /Manu: overall /
|
|
Succeeded: s/coudl/could/
|
|
Found ScribeNick: melvster
|
|
Found Scribe: melvster
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: melvster
|
|
Default Present: tpa, [IPcaller], Dsr, Doug_Schepers, hhalpin, +1.510.931.aaaa, manu, melvster1, bblfish, +0774811aabb, +049172247aacc, +1.617.838.aadd
|
|
Present: tpa [IPcaller] Dsr Doug_Schepers hhalpin +1.510.931.aaaa manu melvster1 bblfish +0774811aabb +049172247aacc +1.617.838.aadd
|
|
Found Date: 10 Feb 2010
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: hhalpin
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|