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579 lines
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579 lines
20 KiB
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<title>mawg -- 16 Apr 2009</title>
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>mawg</h1>
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<h2>16 Apr 2009</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(In_Progress)'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Doug_Schepers, Felix</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>daniel</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>tbd, wbailer</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">mxm introduction</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">review of mapping table</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> scribe: tbd</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>shepazu</cite>> trackbot, start
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telcon</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Meeting: Media
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Annotations Working Group Teleconference</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 16 April
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2009</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vrodrgue2</cite>> I am vroddon2 in
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skype</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> felix, can you hear
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our voices ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> very hard to
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hear</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>shepazu</cite>> XMP also has broad
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support on deployed devices</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>shepazu</cite>> like cameras,
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videocams, etc.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> canonical processes
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discussion proposed by Venonique</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> dave is talking
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about some issues and questions on UC&Req document.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>wbailer</cite>> scribe: wbailer</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> cross site scripting is an
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security issue for metadata access<br />
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... mention that this is an issue, work on solution with other
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WGs<br />
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... issue: are annotations timed or not?<br />
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... applys to different type of metadata: content description,
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rights, etc.<br />
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... metadata global to media item might be sufficient to start,
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but time-dependent metadata needs to be considered</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> yeah, felix, the
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whether is very nice</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> ..:-)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> what is the media object?
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is a fragment a media object<br />
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... needs to be defined</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>felix:</cite> this is an issue, do we
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need to solve it? could timed text approach be used for
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that</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> time reference should be
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supported in api</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> doesn't media fragments
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solve that? uri describes fragment<br />
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... bring up question in joined section</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> felix: media
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fragments group mechanism might be helpful here</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> use case "Access via web
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client to metadata in heterogeneous formats"<br />
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... to which collection do the queries refer to?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>vmalais</cite>> <a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html?rev=1.57&content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8">
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http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html?rev=1.57&content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> specify what goes along the
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arrows in the diagram in section3</p><a name="action01" id=
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"action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> felix to clarify arrow + descriptions
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for the diagram in section 3 of UC & req dcouments
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-101
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- Clarify arrow + descriptions for the diagram in section 3 of
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UC & req dcouments [on Felix Sasaki - due 2009-04-23].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> uc 5.4 refers accessing
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the api from a search engine</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> check if attributes
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mentioned in attributes are covered by properties in mapping
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table</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> veroniqueM to update canonical
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processes use cases [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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find user - veroniqueM</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> vmalais to update canonical processes
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use cases [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-102
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- Update canonical processes use cases [on Véronique Malaisé -
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due 2009-04-23].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> coffee break</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> and get back to the
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MXM discussion...</p>
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<h3 id="item01">mxm introduction</h3>
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<p class='phone'>wonsuk presents short overview of mpeg
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extensible middleware</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://mxm.wg11.sc29.org/">http://mxm.wg11.sc29.org/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> resume the meeting
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with MXM introduction by Wonsuk</p>
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<p class='phone'>wonsuk believes there is synergy between
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implementation of generic metadata engine in mxm and mawg</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> define basic set of
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entities and their mappings to different formats<br />
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... in future, further formats could be added<br />
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... define basic set of entities</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> from which formats to
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take definition of these entities</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> entities are internal to
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ontology<br />
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... few, generic entities should be sufficient</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> people will map to
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other formats - what to map to?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> a defined reference is
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necessary<br />
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... group and classify properties</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> how are entities
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from different formats related<br />
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... define metamodel?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ruben:</cite> define minimum set of core
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terms</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> went through this
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discussion => ebu core<br />
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... europeana: reduce to 15 elements, then enriched</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> start with core set,
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xmp also has core set going back to DC + enrichments</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ruben:</cite> ID3 is good example for
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basic metadata set</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> publish set of general
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entities, make people think in terms of these entities</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> we'd all like a metadata
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system with clear semantics, widely used<br />
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... don't know how to get it</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> enforcing a format is
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not possible, mapping is the only option</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> mapping always means
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loss of information</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>victor:</cite> mapping using semantic
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technologies can provide richer mapping than other
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apporaches<br />
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... if set of entities is published in w3c recommendation
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people might be encouraged to use it</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> problem is different
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semantics in enrichment of standards<br />
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... build simple core ontology, can be extended to build
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complex annotation</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> kind of combination
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of dc and mpeg-7 reflects interest of people in wg, but not of
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interest</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> +1 to a simple set
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of properties</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> unthinkable
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combination<br />
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... we have even not agreed on which format to use for
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describing mappings<br />
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... most search engines make search based on brute force</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> there are swoogle type
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of search engines</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> even if there's an
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api for mapping different formats- will it be used</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> assemble domain
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knowledge, not filter it</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> work would be simple
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if all formats would be described already in rdf</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> thought that 1:1 mapping
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of properties makes work easier</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> adding entities and
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their relations would mean defining another ontology</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> grouping properties like
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in xmp</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> define ontology, provide
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browsing properties without the need to understand owl</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> develop ontology for
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grouping, avoid define another metadata format</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> no reason to prefer certain
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format, define properties and mappings to existing
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formats<br />
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... not really defining a new ontology<br />
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... not saying that tags we are mapping to are equivalent</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> do people agree to
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define basic set of terms?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> set of basic terms
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or superset?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> subset of what you
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reasonable want and expect to get</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> +1 to dave</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> isn't that just dublinc
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core?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronqiue:</cite> is this really all we
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want?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> in an image, one wants
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to annotate content</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ruben:</cite> doing better and more
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precise might be understand as just another ontology</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>felix:</cite> what we're doing is
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developing dc for media<br />
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... not bad to refer to dc<br />
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... mappings to other formats not availble yet<br />
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... lots of mappings available for dc elements in mapping
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table, getting thinner for other elements<br />
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... concern that group is doing too much and progressing too
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slow<br />
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... doing something simple for v1 and more complex for v2 might
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be a useful approach</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>daniel:</cite> make first basic version,
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gather feedback and improve based on feedback</p>
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<p class='phone'>daniel reminds of wg charter</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> in a simple
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approach, we define a list of terms (might be some as dc or
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xmp)<br />
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... let's see if we agree on list of terms<br />
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... define list of entities and mapping, including mapping dc
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and xmp to that list</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> everyone agrees?</p>
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<p class='phone'>no disagreement</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> subclasses could be
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useful</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> would increase semantic
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expressiveness</p>
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<h3 id="item02">review of mapping table</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> level of conformance of
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implementations to be defined</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> implementation
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cannot mean change implementations</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> have several levels of
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conformance?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>daniel</cite>> implementation
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volunteering (in this room): Joakim, Wonsuk, Werner</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> api for mapping =
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conformance</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> what about proprietary
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formats of service providers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> format should not be
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used as data model</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> there are specific
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formats in business domains<br />
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|
... use this in generic deployment environment</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> boundaries between
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|
delivery channels are disappearing<br />
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|
... don't want to reinvent how to describe broadcast
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content</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> if there is a
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recommendation of comment set, why would broadcasters not use
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it?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> broadcasters would
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keep their formats and use mappings</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> if there's a recommendation
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for set of properties, they would try to conform (in their
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formats)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> common set of entities
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is needed for querying across several formats</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> content provider
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would not implement for mapping</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> at least not large
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providers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> we should not reject
|
|
any particular type of metadata<br />
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|
... for the time being we have a restricted set of formats for
|
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which we have defined mappings<br />
|
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... everyone should be able to map their format<br />
|
|
... restrictions may come from the way the api is written</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> skos might not be
|
|
sufficient for describing the mappings</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ruben:</cite> if the internal format is
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hidden to the user, why standardise the mappings?<br />
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|
... api only is visible</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> like dc, this would
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mean publishing list of terms</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> why should mapping rules
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be standardised?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ruben:</cite> mapping can be useful, but
|
|
can be informative</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> mapping is mechanism
|
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to discover the set of entities<br />
|
|
... but mappings need not be normative<br />
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|
... simple list of properties is not incompatible with more
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complex ontology</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>felix:</cite> simple approach is
|
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good<br />
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... description of relation to other formats is very
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valuable<br />
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|
... continue review of mappings</p>
|
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|
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> would api be
|
|
implementation of mappings?</p>
|
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|
<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> is there need for an
|
|
api?<br />
|
|
... if format in which to publish information is defined</p>
|
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<p class='phone'><cite>felix:</cite> api is useful for making
|
|
mapping testable</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> does that require solving
|
|
data type issue of return values?</p>
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<p class='phone'>felix, dave: not necessary for making testable
|
|
assertions</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>wonsuk</cite>> <a href=
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|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/</a></p>
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|
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<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> list of terms, when to
|
|
define?</p>
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|
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<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> now<br />
|
|
... column with names of entities will be added to mapping
|
|
table<br />
|
|
... then review and agree on format reviews</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>veronique:</cite> are mappings one way
|
|
or bidirectional?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> one way only</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>victor:</cite> refine mappings, specify
|
|
transitivity, conditions under which properties are equivalent,
|
|
etc<br />
|
|
... precising the relationship further<br />
|
|
... cardinalities<br />
|
|
... priorities in case of several mappings</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> refining further would be
|
|
necessary for supporting setting scenario</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> setting raises problem of
|
|
value ranges of different formats</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> future version of mapping
|
|
table with refined semantics</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>dave:</cite> choose terms that can be
|
|
read from many formats</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jean-pierre:</cite> there might be terms
|
|
that are useful but not (yet) widely supported</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> felix to clarify
|
|
arrow + descriptions for the diagram in section 3 of UC & req
|
|
dcouments [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> veroniqueM to
|
|
update canonical processes use cases [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> vmalais to update
|
|
canonical processes use cases [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/04/16 10:46:04 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/provideers/providers/
|
|
Succeeded: s/writter/written/
|
|
Found Scribe: tbd
|
|
Found Scribe: wbailer
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: wbailer
|
|
Scribes: tbd, wbailer
|
|
Default Present: Doug_Schepers, Felix
|
|
Present: Doug_Schepers Felix
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Fewer than 3 people found for Present list!
|
|
|
|
Agenda: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(In_Progress)">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_(In_Progress)</a>
|
|
Found Date: 16 Apr 2009
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/16-mediaann-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: felix veroniquem vmalais
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|