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501 lines
19 KiB
501 lines
19 KiB
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 17 Nov
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2010</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>17 Nov 2010</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Nov/0029.html'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Thomas, Yves, Erik, Raphael, Silvia_(irc),
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Philip_(irc)</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>Davy</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Raphael</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">2. Media Fragment
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Specification</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">3. Media fragments URI on web
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page</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">4. AOB</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 November
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2010</p>
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<p class='phone'>trackbot, start telecon</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Meeting: Media
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Fragments Working Group Teleconference</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 November
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2010</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tomayac</cite>> hamburg, germany,
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yes</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Raphael</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick:
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raphael</p>
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<p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 7th F2F
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meeting:</p>
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<p class='phone'>- <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>- <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/02-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/02-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1 (but am still
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reading it though :)</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tomayac</cite>> pass ;-)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>minutes accepted</p>
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<h3 id="item02">2. Media Fragment Specification</h3>
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<p class='phone'>For IBBT ...</p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-192?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-192 -- Davy
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Van Deursen to update the specification to state what the
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processing should do when media fragments request (time
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dimension) does not match exactly how the media item has been
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encoded -- due 2010-11-08 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/192">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/192</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-193?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-193 -- Erik
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Mannens to make a schema for the server redirect recipe -- due
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2010-11-08 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/193">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/193</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-195?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-195 -- Davy
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Van Deursen to add a paragraph in the section 7.1 to specify
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that video, audio, img or any href is all treated similarly
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(range request issued when facing a media fragment) -- due
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2010-11-08 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/195">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/195</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-191?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-191 -- Yves
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Lafon to update the production rules of the time dimension with
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the npt format for making the hours optional -- due 2010-11-08
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-- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/191">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/191</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Yves started to do it during the f2f meeting,
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needs to add a sentence in the spec</p>
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<p class='phone'>ISSUE-19?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-19 --
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Parsing must be defined normatively in the MF spec itself --
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open</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/19">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/19</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Philip has proposed a number of patches, see
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result at <a href=
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"http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html">
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http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Yves has discussed this with Philip which sort
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of outdate this proposal</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> the result is that we
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should keep the grammar as it is, + some clarification text on
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the purpose of the grammar<br />
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... + a normative algorithm for parsing<br />
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... we need consensus and approval from Jack, Silvia, and Davy
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at least in the group + feedback from the implementers</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> is the proposal
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formally specified somewhere?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I'm probably ok with
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it but don't want to give a blind vote</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what this clarification
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text should express?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> the purpose of the
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grammar is to describe the "normal" syntax, ie: the one that
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should be created</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> ie: it is not the
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parsing rules</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> where we should write
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this ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> at the beginning of section
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4 and appendix D<br />
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... as a reminder</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to add a clarification text
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regarding the purpose of the grammar [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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find user - raphael</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to add a clarification text
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regarding the purpose of the grammar [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-199
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- Add a clarification text regarding the purpose of the grammar
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[on Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-11-24].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> regarding the parsing
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algorithm</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> back to a very detailed
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description of the algorithm<br />
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... I would like to read it crisp and procedural<br />
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... we need an agreement that the parsing algorithm become
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normative<br />
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... I would agree that given this clarification of role, the
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algorithm become normative</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> I agree too</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, would you have any objection of having
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a detailed parsing algorithm of a media fragment URI nomative
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in the spec instead of an annex?</p>
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<p class='phone'>Two versions of the algorithm</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> 1/ <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-uri-syntax">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-uri-syntax</a><br />
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... 2/ <a href=
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"http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-components">
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http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-components</a><br />
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... and <a href=
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"http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-components">
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http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-components</a><br />
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... and <a href=
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"http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-lists">
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http://people.opera.com/philipj/2010/11/04/media-fragments-spec/overview.html#processing-name-value-lists</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> no objection
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here</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I agree to ask Philip to
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put which version he prefers<br />
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... the only contentious issue might be: 2.</p>
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<p class='phone'>2. Otherwise, the name-value pair does not
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represent a media fragment dimension. Validators should emit a
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warning. User agents must ignore the name-value pair.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Note:</cite> Because the name-value
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pairs are processed in order, the last valid occurence of any
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dimension is the one that is used.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Validators should
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perhaps emit an error rather a warning ?<br />
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... the processing order of the dimensions and whether parsing
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should be relaxed or not in case of multiple occurences of the
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same dimension (except track)</p><a name="action03" id=
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"action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send a proposal to close
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ISSUE-19 that consists in: clarification text + normative
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parsing algorithm [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-200
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- Send a proposal to close ISSUE-19 that consists in:
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clarification text + normative parsing algorithm [on Raphaël
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Troncy - due 2010-11-24].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> I prefer my latest
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version that uses the namevalues syntax</p>
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<p class='phone'>great, thanks Philip, we will use this one
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then :-)</p>
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<h3 id="item03">3. Media fragments URI on web page</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> started by a thread from
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Silvia<br />
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... discussed at the F2F meeting: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#item05">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#item05</a><br />
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... lead to the notion of optimistic use of the Range header,
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only for the 'second' unit<br />
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... it cannot be done for any other way for getting part of the
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content</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> (except that my
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email was about something completely different ;-)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> yeah I think Silvia's
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email was about using the html fragment for video</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> which by default is
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=> no (ie: it's per page, so you can't generalize this)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> it was not to become
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normative - the idea is to propose a syntax that people can
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choose to make use of</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> because the html URI
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is much more important for most video on the web than the video
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URI</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> there are 2 orthogonal
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issues<br />
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... the fragment applies to ONE resource you're
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retrieving<br />
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... if you want the fragment on the page be applied to the
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video element on that page, this is your javascript that can do
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that, nothing to put in the spec<br />
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... the other issue of optimistic use of the Range header,
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Philip states that this is up to the URI spec to change<br />
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... I quote: "The semantics of the fragment identifier is
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defined by each MIME type registration. Before we know the
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type, we can't assume anything. Therefore, the only possibility
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is if the URL/URI/IRI spec itself states that #t=1 has some
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semantics for *all* types and that this should cause headers
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Foo and Bar to be sent. However, I truly doubt we'll see
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media-specific things like this put into URL/URI/IRI, it's
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seems like a gigantic layering violat</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> as I said: the idea
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is to give a Web developer that wants to do media fragments on
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a Web page a recommendation for how to do the URI structure on
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their page - they still have to implement it themselves, it's
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just handy to agree on the same approach</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> no need for more
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Range headers, or an implementation in browsers or anything -
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just a helping hand for Web developers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I agree silvia, and I
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strongly recommend to add a new Appendix for what you propose,
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note to developers :-)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> Agreed, as long as
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there's no change in UA behavior for #t=1 for HTML I'm fine
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with recommending web developers to use the syntax</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> btw: all the video
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hosting sites already have such approaches in the URIs so it's
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not theoretic</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> I agree that we can't
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assume anything, and we shouldn't break any layer, but if we
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know enogh context, using Range request with a unit that can
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only be applied to the media type we are targeting (and will
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default to normal behaviour for all the others)</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, would you like to have an action to
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write a paragraph, note to developers, that they can easily
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implement a javascript to forward the hash on the URI to the
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video element?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> is a (not nice)
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possible optimisation</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> yup, no problem</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> just don't know when
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I'll get around to it :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> context should be that
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URI is in a <video> tag</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> sure</p><a name=
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"action04" id="action04"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to write a paragraph, note to
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developers, that they can easily implement a javascript to
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forward the hash on the URI to the video element [recorded in
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-201
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- Write a paragraph, note to developers, that they can easily
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implement a javascript to forward the hash on the URI to the
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video element [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-11-24].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> it is part of my action
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to clarify the use of optimistic use of Range header
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optimization in case we are in the right context <audio>
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or <video> element</p>
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<h3 id="item04">4. AOB</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> what is the schedule?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> erik, <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#Reports">http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#Reports</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> finish all actions in
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the tracker by the end of the month, so we can transition to
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CR<br />
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... have a telecon about test cases afterwards, for preparing
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the exit CR stage</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> horay for Thomas!</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tomayac</cite>> thanks :-)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tomayac</cite>> <a href=
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"http://tomayac.com/semwebvid/">http://tomayac.com/semwebvid/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we have discussed Ken
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Harrenstien<br />
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... from YouTube</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tomayac</cite>> funny enough ken
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and me have already been in contact with regards to YT closed
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captions. i'll catch up with him and let him know about recent
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developments.</p>
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</div>
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<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
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Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to add a
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clarification text regarding the purpose of the grammar [recorded
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in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to write a
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paragraph, note to developers, that they can easily implement a
|
|
javascript to forward the hash on the URI to the video element
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|
[recorded in <a href=
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|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to add a
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|
clarification text regarding the purpose of the grammar [recorded
|
|
in <a href=
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|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
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<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send a
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proposal to close ISSUE-19 that consists in: clarification text +
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|
normative parsing algorithm [recorded in <a href=
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|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
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<br />
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[End of minutes]<br />
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<hr />
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<address>
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
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scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
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$Date: 2010/11/17 11:02:08 $
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</address>
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<div class="diagnostics"></div>
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</body>
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</html>
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