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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 10 Mar
2010</title>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>10 Mar 2010</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed,
cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>SV_MEETING_CHAIR</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>mischat</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 10 March
2010</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; bah. missed the hour
delay note.</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
meeting</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Meeting: Social
Web Incubator Group Teleconference</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 10 March
2010</p>
<p class='phone'>zakim +??P12 is me</p>
<p class='phone'>zakim ?P12 is me</p>
<p class='phone'>zakim ??P12 is me</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; mischat === harry
?</p>
<p class='phone'>ok DKA</p>
<p class='phone'>i can scribe</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; Scribe: mischat</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; ScribeNick: mischat</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; hi</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to approve
SWXG WG Weekly -- 3 March 2010 as a true record ( <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-swxg-minutes.html</a>
)</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1</p>
<p class='phone'>this call is limited to an hour</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to meet again
Wed. March 17th.</p>
<p class='phone'>the focus of today's meeting will be on the
widgets talk</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; some historical
notes in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion</a>
... not sure how timely they still are</p>
<p class='phone'>DKA give regrets for next weeks call</p>
<p class='phone'>any administrative topics, worth mentioning,
please do so now</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; DKA: I'm a
widgetarian and proud of it</p>
<p class='phone'>Widgets is one of those words which has lots
of connotations dependant on context</p>
<p class='phone'>in the W3C context DKA, Marcos, and darobin
have been working on the W3C Widgets</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; A widget is defined
by the [Widgets-Landscape] as "an end-user's conceptualization
of an interactive single purpose application for displaying
and/or updating local data or data on the Web, packaged in a
way to allow a single download and installation on a user's
machine, mobile phone, or Internet-enabled device".</p>
<p class='phone'>widgets have taken on a new another meaning in
social space, that is of functionality in a social
container</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (in a previous life,
I worked with Robin and Libby Miller on widgets for TV
stuff)</p>
<p class='phone'>3 invited speakers Marcos, darobin, and Scott
from apache</p>
<p class='phone'>ah scott</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks darobin</p>
<p class='phone'>Scott to start taking about the Apache project
and what they are doing with Widgets</p>
<p class='phone'>Scott, uses widgets, gadgets, and apps
interchangeably</p>
<p class='phone'>Wookie ?</p>
<p class='phone'>url someone please</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; yes Wookie</p>
<p class='phone'>Apache Incubator project called Wookie,
implements the W3C Widget API</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/"></a></p>
<p class='phone'>thanks darobin</p>
<p class='phone'>Wookie team wanted to support collaborative,
multi-user widgets</p>
<p class='phone'>the W3C API is neutral to the number of users
who are said to work with a given widget</p>
<p class='phone'>so Wookie implemented the Google Wave API to
add collaborative functionality to the W3C Widget API</p>
<p class='phone'>there are integration points between the
Wookie widgets and shindig widgets</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://shindig.apache.org/"></a></p>
<p class='phone'>where Shindig apps are Open Social Widgets</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; [ShinDig is an
OpenSocial implementation]</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks again</p>
<p class='phone'>danbri is asking about Open Social, and how
they use OAuth and authentication APIs</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; on authentication
methods, see Powerbox <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Feb/att-0140/Overview.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Feb/att-0140/Overview.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'>Wookie does the same thing as Open Social,
they exchange tokens to create trust between widgets and
APIs</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; eg. <a href=
"http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/2leggedoauth/2opensocialrestapi">
http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/2leggedoauth/2opensocialrestapi</a></p>
<p class='phone'>both Shindig and Wookie server widgets as
iframe in webpages, which ends up going through trusted
proxys</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; WARP is <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-access/">http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-access/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>DKA, is breaking up</p>
<p class='phone'>DKA, what type of feedback have you had from
the community (outside of the standards body) re: W3C
widgets</p>
<p class='phone'>most people downloading wookie, seem to be
people outside the standards body, which elgg</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://elgg.org/">http://elgg.org/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>which include elgg, an open decentralised
social network</p>
<p class='phone'>most people interested in collaboration tend
to use shindig</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
ask about top 3 things w3c-and-friends might do to reduce pain
for developers learning these techs</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; shindig uses
terrifying amounts of js</p>
<p class='phone'>danbri, from a developer point of view how
could you reduce the barrier to entry by uniting the two
different APIs (shindig &amp; wookie)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re packaging, i
quite like Mozilla Jetpack's non-packaging approach (raw .js
urls)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; danbri, that
doesn't make it easy to carry things across systems though</p>
<p class='phone'>the two specs seem to have clearer APIs now,
which should make it easier for developers to create
widgets</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-apis/"></a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; are those APIs or
dataformats ( re: "people api, album api, …")</p>
<p class='phone'>Wookie has implemented most of the W3C API
already</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (who joined? you are
noisy)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes, I hear the
noise too</p>
<p class='phone'>the google wave API has a collection of
collaborative API calls, which work nicely with the People
centric API calls from other APIs</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; darobin, you wanted
to mention Powerbox</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>darobin:</cite> do you have feedback on
what we just heard, from an implementation point of view</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: jetpack
dumped that model</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: it was
borked</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; marcos, got an
url?</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; yep, one sec</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>darobin:</cite> is going to mention
powerbox, this is about plugin which allows for ways to install
new APIs into a browser, which allows a website to access data
from a different server. This is to do with the OAuth question
earlier</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: see <a href=
"http://vimeo.com/10011379">http://vimeo.com/10011379</a></p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; he explains it in
the vid</p>
<p class='phone'>the impact for this working group, it that
powebox may give users an easy method to connect data from one
website to another in a safe manner ?</p>
<p class='phone'>in the powerbox approach, the user selects
which service they wish to integrate data from</p>
<p class='phone'>widgets developers wants functionality such as
"give me contacts module"</p>
<p class='phone'>for a given api</p>
<p class='phone'>Powerbox is said to make it easier to the end
user to select which APIs they wish to interact with</p>
<p class='phone'>bblfish is coming from the linked data, foaf,
distributed world. Henry asks how do widgets fit into this
model of a distributed social network</p>
<p class='phone'>widgets should be oblivious to the platform in
which they are being embedded into</p>
<p class='phone'>henry, asks what is meant by an API, he asks
whether the API is a data-model focused API?</p>
<p class='phone'>they tend to be JS APIs which define the data
returned by a given API call</p>
<p class='phone'>examples include getViewer() -&gt; which gets
info about the viewer of the current page, the data would
include avatar, an ID, and a name</p>
<p class='phone'>other examples include getViewersFriends()
-&gt; which returns info regarding the viewer's friends</p>
<p class='phone'>both shindig and wookie require a unique
identifier, they ask for hashes, i.e. URI's which have no
external meaning</p>
<p class='phone'>henry is talking about the pros of having a
URI which is resolvable, which does have external meaning, so
that everytime a widget gets given a URI, this would allow the
widget to go out and get info about the URI used</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; thanks darobin!</p>
<p class='phone'>Marcos, wanted to talk about opera unite which
uses widgets to make a client act as a services, to allow for
peer-2-peer communication on the web</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; bye robin!</p>
<p class='phone'>allowing for servers to built on the client
side, opera unite has been dealing with how they could do with
using the http: protocol</p>
<p class='phone'>DKA, how is wookie using OAuth?</p>
<p class='phone'>Wookie's main use case for OAuth, is for when
a widget wants to get data from an OAuth endpoint</p>
<p class='phone'>in opera unite, OAuth is used to leverage data
found in external services too</p>
<p class='phone'>OAuth allows for server =&gt; server
communication</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; CORS</p>
<p class='phone'>the W3C widget spec is going to consider OAuth
as a mechanism to get data from a different container</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (oh, i missed that?
thought it was re Wookie)</p>
<p class='phone'>ah</p>
<p class='phone'>sorry, i thought he said in the W3C</p>
<p class='phone'>danbri asked if anyone is looking at
OAuthwrap</p>
<p class='phone'>people are waiting to see what happens to the
OAuth spec, waiting for things to settling down</p>
<p class='phone'>sorry, i missed all of that</p>
<p class='phone'>:)</p>
<p class='phone'>thank you</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetSpecs">http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetSpecs</a></p>
<p class='phone'>marcos described the widget spec, details of
which can be found ^^</p>
<p class='phone'>the widget spec will be blocked by html5, as
there are dependencies there</p>
<p class='phone'>nope danbri</p>
<p class='phone'>the W3C widget community have been aware of
the Wookie work for a long time</p>
<p class='phone'>scott has been implementing everything before
everyone else</p>
<p class='phone'>there is a need for API, and for specifying
how data will flow between widgets</p>
<p class='phone'>widget's are supposed to be a simple container
format, social interactions would be fantastic, but are not
necessary</p>
<p class='phone'>W3C Media Annotations</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; +q</p>
<p class='phone'>danbri is talking about how we need an
extensibility model before work can be unified</p>
<p class='phone'>the widgets specification is based on XML,
i.e. extensibility via namespaces, and the work is said to be
extensible. The platform is designed to be very extensible</p>
<p class='phone'>in wookie, you can APIs at runtime, i.e.
functionality from the google wave gadget API can be added</p>
<p class='phone'>in as need be</p>
<p class='phone'>looking at widgets created, most people are
looking for their widgets to go viral, how would the W3C spec
supports this</p>
<p class='phone'>the wookie work shows that widgets are easy to
deploy onto a server environment</p>
<p class='phone'>widgets are supposed to be easy to grab off of
the web, so that they can be run elsewhere</p>
<p class='phone'>this supports archival, by allowing people to
recreate widgets</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (<a href=
"http://www.openintents.org/en/">http://www.openintents.org/en/</a>
is somehow relevant but i can't articulate details)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; very cool.</p>
<p class='phone'>you ripp things off of a server and host it on
whatever device you wish</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; eg -&gt; <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/">http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>A good next step would be too look at the
various APIs available on the web, mapping it dap</p>
<p class='phone'>mapping it to dap</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks for interesting talks!</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; thanks, learned a
lot :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>and sorry for my rubbish scribing, lots of new
things being talked about today</p>
<p class='phone'>bye all</p>
<p class='phone'>thank you</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; thanks folks!</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; trackbot, make
minutes</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, Marcos, I
don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc</a>
for help</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; hmm... nope :)</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; trackbot, make minutes
please</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, DKA, I
don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes please'. Please refer
to <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc</a>
for help</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; hmm</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; i think i could
have just asked trackbot to end meeting</p>
<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2010/03/10 18:04:43 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
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<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/and/any/
Succeeded: s/???/Scott/
Found Scribe: mischat
Found ScribeNick: mischat
WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.
WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: MacTed
New list: cperey
Default Present: DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed, cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster
Present: DKA Marcos +0161238aaaa mischat darobin MacTed cperey danbri bblfish AnitaD melvster
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html</a>
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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&lt;dbooth&gt; Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 10 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
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People with action items:
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) &lt;ol&gt;...&lt;/ol&gt;.
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&lt;dbooth&gt; Topic: Review of Amy's report
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