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1070 lines
43 KiB
1070 lines
43 KiB
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 28 Oct
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2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>28 Oct 2009</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>DKA, Carine, +1.510.931.aaaa, Henry, +0162272aabb,
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MacTed, mischat, hhalpin, tinkster, rreck, +1.858.442.aacc,
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+03539149aadd, melvster</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>hhalpin</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Dan</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">General Organization</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">Invited Guest Invitations</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">User Stories</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item05">Final Report</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item06"># Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from
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Plaxo and Portable Contacts</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 28 October
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2009</p>
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<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> zakim, +0162272aabb
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is me</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have done it 3
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times :(</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Dan</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> any comments on the
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agenda?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
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approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 21st October 2009 as a true
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record</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: SWXG WG
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Weekly -- 21st October 2009 are a true record</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
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again Wed. November 11th (Note that we are skiping the meeting
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of Nov. 4th due to conflict with TPAC)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> next meeting will be Nov
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11 - since we will skip next week due to TPAC.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: Wed.
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November 11th</p>
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<h3 id="item02">General Organization</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> Should we have dial-in
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facilities at TPAC?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> we need to reserve this
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now if we want it...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> Probably not</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> would anyone dial in if
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they are off-site?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> If anyone wants to,
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they can.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> I will send an email out
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to the list - if we will get more than 3 people then I will
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request it.<br />
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... I will include the agenda in the mail I send.<br />
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... Any brief updates on TPAC or social web camp?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
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"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> There are 68 people
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signed up</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> update on the camp - the
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last I saw there were 60 people singed up -<br />
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... <a href=
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"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a><br />
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... Can people please send that around / facebook / twitter /
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identi.ca / whatever it... use sky-writing, etc...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Sun is paying $10
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for lunch</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>CaptSolo</cite>> Zakim: aadd is
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me</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> David Morin from
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Facebook.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Other good news on TPAC -
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we have a number of observers coming in...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> there is an
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echo</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Any updates on
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actions?</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> tinkster
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to summarize Evan's talk [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> I've posted that
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to the list already.</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> DKA to
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summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
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knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> tinkster did you get
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my email?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe, i have
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another couple of actions</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Giant congratulations to
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mischat for finishing his action.</p><a name="action03" id=
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"action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Mischa to
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describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how
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they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0051.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0051.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> Yes.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> there is an
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echo</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i think is almost
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done</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> I think it was
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changed to DONE last week.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> mine</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> harry is
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echoing</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> perhaps everyone
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is</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> echo is based on
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noise canceling</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> everyone seems to
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be.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yay
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better</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Adam to
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write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p><a name="action05"
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id="action05"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> mtuffied
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to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
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technologies. [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p><a name="action06"
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id="action06"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong>oshani to write up David Recordon and
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Luke Shepart talk. [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
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<h3 id="item03">Invited Guest Invitations</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Ted will be talking about
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applying social tech to w3.org...</p><a name="action07" id=
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"action07"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> cperey to
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book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have no joy with
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BBC persia</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> mtiffiel
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to invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social
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media [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> nope will try
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calling them again</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> will hassle</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> for another
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week</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> hi i'm on the
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call</p><a name="action09" id="action09"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> petef to
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look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded
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in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>
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<h3 id="item04">User Stories</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> we can talk user stories
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and final report next week [at TPAC].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Will talk about
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this next week at TPAC.</p><a name="action10" id=
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"action10"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> adam to
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write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p><a name="action11"
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id="action11"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> rreck to
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flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
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null provenance [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]</p><a name="action12"
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id="action12"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> oshani to
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reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12">
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http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p><a name="action13"
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id="action13"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
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to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled
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access and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> mine is almost
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done</p><a name="action14" id="action14"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
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to merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i promise</p><a name=
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"action15" id="action15"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
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explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]</p>
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<h3 id="item05">Final Report</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, I have not had
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a lot of time to do much, on my use cases as I have been quite
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busy organising <a href=
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"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a></p>
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<h3 id="item06"># Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and
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Portable Contacts</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://josephsmarr.com/">http://josephsmarr.com/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.plaxo.com/">http://www.plaxo.com/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://portablecontacts.net/">http://portablecontacts.net/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>Joseph Smarr: I'm CTO at Plaxo - Plaxo's about
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contact management, keeping together sources of contact
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data...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html">http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Lately I've been involved
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with the so-called open stack. This is also strategic for
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Plaxo.<br />
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... A lot of these technologies are making progress - but
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everything on the Web wants to add a social component. In order
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to get that people data<br />
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... reconnecting to those people you know is daunting. Most
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sites are scraping your data using your
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username/password.<br />
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... until now the tools weren't available to do anything else.
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Every single site has built their own contacts protocol / db /
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etc...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> good point re
|
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vendor-specific APIs over scraping</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> genesis of portable
|
|
contacts came out of [trying to solve this problem]. Because
|
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even APIs when they are proprietary are not solving the
|
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problem.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> ha!</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> someone else building
|
|
contact API should be able to use them... With portable
|
|
contacts there should be a network effect -<br />
|
|
... so we get away from this vendor-by-vendor integration. This
|
|
is more how the Web should work.<br />
|
|
... portablecontacts.net</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> simple sounds like a
|
|
good idea</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> getting adoption is the
|
|
hardest thing - the best way to get adoption is to make the
|
|
protocol simple ... minimal tool-chain complexity...<br />
|
|
... it's not just having a standard schema for contacts, but
|
|
specifying how you authenticate, etc... end-to-end. But each
|
|
piece is "not invented" as possible.<br />
|
|
... Schema is taken from v-card, etc...<br />
|
|
... the discovery protocol is XRD. The auth protocols are http
|
|
basic or oauth. Simple REST-style [API].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :) pausing for
|
|
breath!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> that's basically where
|
|
things are at. It's a draft spec for a year. Plaxo, Google, MS,
|
|
[others?] have implemented...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Myspace has
|
|
implemented, and part of OpenSocial.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> have also got together
|
|
with the open social folks - they have specfified REST-ful
|
|
protocols for contacts. They did something similar. We worked
|
|
with them to make open social a subset of portable
|
|
contacts.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Adam:</cite> have you given thought how
|
|
it might have value to the enterprise?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Enterprise
|
|
deployment of PortableContacts...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> portable contacts useful
|
|
as itself as a useful protocol - so if you're building
|
|
applications that share contact info [even within the
|
|
enterprise] then I suggest using portable contacts
|
|
format.<br />
|
|
... if you can use portable contacts then you only have to
|
|
build it once if you want to integrate with other social
|
|
networks, etc...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
|
|
ask how far schema extensions can be supported in the
|
|
protocol</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>joseph:</cite> the other thing we do is
|
|
helping to educate market...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> louder please</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> How far can the schema be
|
|
extended without [breaking things]?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> q: how far can
|
|
schema be extended beforeyou go beyond what protocol can
|
|
understand? what's the plan for navigating that tension?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> we like the html model of
|
|
extensibility - if you want to extend then you can and we'll
|
|
ignore it if we don't understand it.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> within each field there
|
|
is a type value and each in each type values there are
|
|
canonically specified values but you can use your own as
|
|
well... the auth protocols are also extensible.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So we have examples
|
|
of those extra fields.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Wondering if
|
|
there's a wiki where these can be listed...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> it's intentionally quiet
|
|
around namespacing, extension mechanisms, etc... entire spec is
|
|
intended to be extensible.<br />
|
|
... Also - there's already been a lot of talk of using the
|
|
schema in other contexts - e.g. webfinger.<br />
|
|
... some work on an XML namespace is beginning. We could use
|
|
some help and guidance on that.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://groups.google.com/group/portablecontacts/browse_thread/thread/6954a050d65485bf/ced1b56aaa246a85?lnk=gst&q=brickley#ced1b56aaa246a85">
|
|
http://groups.google.com/group/portablecontacts/browse_thread/thread/6954a050d65485bf/ced1b56aaa246a85?lnk=gst&q=brickley#ced1b56aaa246a85</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> some discussion of
|
|
xml ns there</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> grddl etc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> On that topic - it' would
|
|
be interesting to see more alignment - between FOAF and
|
|
portable contacts.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> What's the IPR policy of
|
|
portable contacts, etc...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We are looking at open
|
|
web foundation or something... We're not going to make a
|
|
separate foundation. Most of the people who have contributed to
|
|
the spec understand that it will go in that direction.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> [relating the vcard schema
|
|
effort...]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://microformats.org/wiki/jcard">http://microformats.org/wiki/jcard</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> [circular statements that
|
|
have broken my fingers]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> woman's voice cross
|
|
talk</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Apple is spearheading a
|
|
card-dav effort - which is not using the XML schema.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> in <a href=
|
|
"http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html#schema">http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html#schema</a>
|
|
i'd love to see a distinction between PC core, and the
|
|
opensocial stuff which seems less firm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> there wasn't much in
|
|
there [vcard xml schema] that was controversial.<br />
|
|
... it would be good [to align these]<br />
|
|
... if you are interested then please say so on the [ietf?]
|
|
mailing list.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> IETF VCard 4.0
|
|
list.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Needs to be linked up to
|
|
JSON format. JSON can be serializable in modern languages like
|
|
PHP, etc... so no need for parsing.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> it appears that portable
|
|
contacts is a proper superset of vcard3.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (also re I18N of
|
|
names ...)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1-to-1 mapping
|
|
above vCard 3.0 and modernized some spellings</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> we modernized some of the
|
|
spellings - adr to address. Didn't need to be as terse as older
|
|
standards...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://wiki.portablecontacts.net/">http://wiki.portablecontacts.net/</a></p><a name="action16"
|
|
id="action16"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to check out FOAF and
|
|
PortableContacts mapping. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-102
|
|
- Check out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [on Harry Halpin
|
|
- due 2009-11-04].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> there is a converted
|
|
between portable contacts and vcard...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100">http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100</a>
|
|
re names</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> re additions to vcard 3
|
|
spec like tags and photos - this was taken from empirical data
|
|
about what people were using, right?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Yes.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> does Plaxo keep a record
|
|
of what sites support tagging, etc...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> +1 on both full
|
|
field or broken out field or both</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> if both, there is
|
|
assumption that one is derrived from the other</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We used 2 sources for
|
|
info - all the address book APIs. We used a "composite" field
|
|
(for e.g. address) where you can store both a composite and
|
|
broken down version.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> chris messina has a
|
|
blog post has a big spreadsheet on contacts APIs.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> referred to
|
|
OpenSocial (i.e. Kevin Marks) did the field study on social
|
|
networking data (top 50)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I remember looking
|
|
for a URI for that spreadsheet!!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Anyone have it to
|
|
ping into IRC</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I saw it
|
|
once..thought it was a Google Doc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA1</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Ron:</cite> it would be useful to have
|
|
uni-directional relationships.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> "but relationships
|
|
MUST have been bi-directionally confirmed" is interesting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> assumes a b/g db</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> our goal was not to model
|
|
the social graph, but we wanted to express uni- and
|
|
bi-directional relathionships.<br />
|
|
... we have tags and relationships. That's meant to be used for
|
|
uni-directional relationships. In Plaxo when you connect to
|
|
someone you can connect as family, friends or business.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i totally get what
|
|
you are saying thanks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> when you have
|
|
bi-directional relationship then you have a special
|
|
relationship.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
|
|
ask about a PC core (that FOAF might adopt for base
|
|
addressbook; then diverge on favourite-movie or trust vocab /
|
|
group descriptions detail)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> on bi-directional
|
|
confirmation. Does this means there is an assumption of a
|
|
backing database?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hmmm...just
|
|
starting thinking of XFN/hCard mappings as well....</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> the idea is that the
|
|
semantics are relative to the provider of the contacts
|
|
information. If you want to infer things like connection or
|
|
relationship then you are trusting the site...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> great observation</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> it doesn't [formalize]
|
|
the provenance.<br />
|
|
... if you think there's a compelling use then go build it and
|
|
jump on the mailing list...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> do you plan to make any
|
|
distinction of the core of portable contacts and the stuff
|
|
that's coming in from opensocial?<br />
|
|
... your schema has some things like "looking for" and some
|
|
wooly things from opensocial.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> they're not formally
|
|
separated but they are called out distinctly. I think the world
|
|
is changing pretty rapidly [as regards what is "core" contact
|
|
data].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> My guess is we are
|
|
going to run over 10-15 minutes.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Is this OK with
|
|
people?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> on Facebook you care
|
|
about a phone number but you also care about IM addresses
|
|
another social information that people have put on [their
|
|
profiles].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> caribou, you wanted
|
|
to ask about policies attached to data</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1 run over</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> how much naming stuff do
|
|
you want to do? Describing family names properly for every
|
|
culture / country....<br />
|
|
... nobody's done it yet - is portable contacts going to do
|
|
this?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We try to be
|
|
internationally savvy. If you have feedback about what else we
|
|
could do please input it [on our mailing list]. In some
|
|
cultures people have multiple names. But adding that complexity
|
|
for everyone...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> when we write our
|
|
final report - maybe we should suggest some joint pc/w3c effort
|
|
to evaluate the i18n aspects of naming and come up with a 'good
|
|
enough for everyone' strategy?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 danbri</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Caribou:</cite> I understand it's nice
|
|
to transfer data from one service to another - but if I
|
|
fine-tune my privacy data in one site and then the data is
|
|
transferred to another site then the policies are not
|
|
transferred withthe data.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> harry, can you bring
|
|
that up, you've got better audio....</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Yes - the protocol is
|
|
designed to only transfer the data, not the privacy
|
|
metadata.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ok...will bring
|
|
this up.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> That's a place
|
|
where the W3C is doing some work I think</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> in a fully-interoperable
|
|
soclai web this would be handled. Needs to be explored
|
|
further...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Carine - do you
|
|
have a URI?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> for policy language
|
|
stuff?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> There's a portable
|
|
contacts google group - open to everyone.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> privacy seems against
|
|
social networking business models</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that's the w3c
|
|
workshop on access.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OpenID uses
|
|
URIs.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> well, back to final
|
|
report? i'd like us to agree that this base core (names stuff,
|
|
addresses ... but not turnOns/turnOffs) deserves to be done
|
|
once, well, in a way that works worldwide</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Henry:</cite> [the open stack] always
|
|
seems a little more complicated then it should be. Seems to be
|
|
"increasing the powers of silos". Seems like the simple way to
|
|
identify people would be by URL.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> hhalpin, the W3C
|
|
PLING is looking at sticky policies</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... and
|
|
PortableContacts imho is the most credible recent effort to
|
|
bring together addressbook and social network field sets; I
|
|
hope w3c can add an 18n perspective and assist in getting input
|
|
from rest of planet</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Henry:</cite> if you look at open social
|
|
- the way people are identified the first four characters are
|
|
split off - forcing all URLs to be URNs... It seems to force
|
|
complexity.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Carine - would it
|
|
be worthwhile to have PLING do a presentation after the Nov.
|
|
workshop?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We are booked most
|
|
of Nov, but Dec. is free for invited speakers.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'd like to finish
|
|
up with Invited speakers by Jan so we can move to final report
|
|
mode...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> to clarify - there is a
|
|
unique identifier ID field for each contact. It's been a URN by
|
|
convention but it's meant to be a local stable identifier. But
|
|
in addition the contacts can have emails URLs, etc...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I was not clear how
|
|
mature the policy language work was.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> rather than it just being
|
|
a URL you can explicitly break out the domain, username,
|
|
etc...<br />
|
|
... so flickr, twitter, etc... can be broken out.... to
|
|
strongly identify a user across silos.<br />
|
|
... and the fact that there is a format to use to export the
|
|
data should be helping to move away from silos and towards
|
|
interop.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> The task fo the SWXG -
|
|
we're interested in seeing what areas the W3C could play a role
|
|
[or not] in the wider social web ecosystem. You could imagine
|
|
something very light-weight... For example, reviewing
|
|
internationalization (Richard Ishida).<br />
|
|
... having some sort of relationship between W3C and OpenWeb
|
|
Foundation.<br />
|
|
... we could recommend that the W3C look into standardizing
|
|
things. Things like portable contacts, they are already
|
|
standards, but could W3C have a role here?<br />
|
|
... any opinions?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we'll have eran on
|
|
I think in 2 weeks.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> or 3</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> expertise around
|
|
internationalization and with others standards</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> I'm a big believer in
|
|
standards and communities. Both as a structure for
|
|
collaboration and to add gravitas. I think those are valuable
|
|
suggestions. Last thing we want is a set of competing standards
|
|
bodies.<br />
|
|
... diversity is good.<br />
|
|
... all parties should feel like their voices are heard...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> One issue facing w3c is
|
|
the membership structure. This incubator group is open - more
|
|
or less anyone can join - but that's not normal for w3c. Is
|
|
that a barrier [to participation<br />
|
|
... ] in w3c?<br />
|
|
... we have OWF on the phone in 2 or three weeks and we are
|
|
trying to figure out what they are doing with process...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Portable contacts has
|
|
happened very organically. Mix of big companies, small
|
|
companies, independents, etc... I understand why some of these
|
|
bodies have rules about charter and IPR upfront, but nature of
|
|
some of these efforts is light and bottom-up...<br />
|
|
... [path to standardization] could move from light-weight
|
|
process to more formalized standards body...<br />
|
|
... to the extent that more process is necessary then
|
|
absolutely.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ok here's a quick
|
|
braindump re FOAF and Portable Contacts - <a href=
|
|
"http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/DanBri/PortableContactsAndFOAFLinkage">
|
|
http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/DanBri/PortableContactsAndFOAFLinkage</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... can take that to
|
|
the list for discussion cc Joseph</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1 year and a half,
|
|
pretty stable around 2009...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> have had as
|
|
updates.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> or on the mailing
|
|
list.</p><a name="action17" id="action17"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ping issue richard ishida
|
|
to join portable contacts list [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-103
|
|
- Ping issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [on
|
|
Harry Halpin - due 2009-11-04].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bye all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> thanks joseph1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> thanks joseph1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> If designing a form
|
|
or database that will accept names from people with a variety
|
|
of backgrounds, you should ask yourself whether you really need
|
|
to have separate fields for given name and family name.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> This will depend on
|
|
what you need to do with the data, but obviously it will be
|
|
simpler to just use the full name as the user provides it,
|
|
where possible.""""</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> from <a href=
|
|
"http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100">http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> thanks alot
|
|
jsmarr!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
|
|
adjourned</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> thanks guys</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> btw, is this irc
|
|
transcript available/archived on the web at all/</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> jsmarr, when we do a
|
|
call on widget apis for social i'll bug you to join us again
|
|
... interesting links with mobile web there...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We'll ping Ted
|
|
Guild over looking at PortableContacts for w3.org when his time
|
|
frees up.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> e.g. that i could
|
|
link to for others to see the transcript</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to check
|
|
out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ping
|
|
issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to write
|
|
up David Recordon and Luke Shepart talk. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Adam to write
|
|
up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write
|
|
up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded
|
|
in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
|
|
merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
|
|
relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access
|
|
and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to
|
|
book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to
|
|
summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
|
|
knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin
|
|
explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
|
|
describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they
|
|
change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mtiffiel to
|
|
invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social media
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mtuffied to
|
|
put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
|
|
technologies. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to
|
|
reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> petef to look
|
|
into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> rreck to
|
|
flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
|
|
null provenance [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
|
|
summarize Evan's talk [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/10/28 16:19:21 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Found Scribe: Dan
|
|
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Dan> ...
|
|
Found ScribeNick: DKA
|
|
Found ScribeNick: DKA1
|
|
ScribeNicks: DKA, DKA1
|
|
Default Present: DKA, Carine, +1.510.931.aaaa, Henry, +0162272aabb, MacTed, mischat, hhalpin, tinkster, rreck, +1.858.442.aacc, +03539149aadd, melvster
|
|
Present: DKA Carine +1.510.931.aaaa Henry +0162272aabb MacTed mischat hhalpin tinkster rreck +1.858.442.aacc +03539149aadd melvster
|
|
Found Date: 28 Oct 2009
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: adam bblfish cperey dka explain hhalpin mischa mtiffiel mtuffied oshani petef rreck tinkster
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|