You can not select more than 25 topics
Topics must start with a letter or number, can include dashes ('-') and can be up to 35 characters long.
839 lines
30 KiB
839 lines
30 KiB
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
|
|
|
|
<html lang='en' xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
|
|
<head>
|
|
<meta name="generator" content=
|
|
"HTML Tidy for Linux (vers 6 November 2007), see www.w3.org" />
|
|
|
|
<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 12 May
|
|
2010</title>
|
|
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/base.css" />
|
|
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/public.css" />
|
|
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2004/02/minutes-style.css" />
|
|
<meta content="Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference" name=
|
|
"Title" />
|
|
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=
|
|
"Content-Type" />
|
|
</head>
|
|
|
|
<body>
|
|
<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
|
|
"48" width="72" /></a></p>
|
|
|
|
<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
|
|
|
|
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
|
|
|
|
<h2>12 May 2010</h2>
|
|
|
|
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-swxg-irc">IRC
|
|
log</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
|
|
|
|
<div class="intro">
|
|
<dl>
|
|
<dt>Present</dt>
|
|
|
|
<dd>+1.781.416.aaaa, hhalpin, +0774811aabb, DKA, MacTed,
|
|
yoshiaki, Yolanda, melvster, cperey, +0773779aadd,
|
|
+0752818aaee, mischat</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Regrets</dt>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Chair</dt>
|
|
|
|
<dd>DKA</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Scribe</dt>
|
|
|
|
<dd>hhalpin, Harry</dd>
|
|
</dl>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2>Contents</h2>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>
|
|
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
|
|
|
|
<ol>
|
|
<li><a href="#item01">Provenance and the Social Web with
|
|
invited guest Paul Groth from Provenance XG.</a></li>
|
|
</ol>
|
|
</li>
|
|
|
|
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<div class="meeting">
|
|
<p class='phone'></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 12 May
|
|
2010</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> hhalpin: no I'm new</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Fabien - if you're online, it would also be
|
|
great if you could give an update on the Open Graph Protocol to
|
|
those who missed WWW2010...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> I'm adrian gschwend</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>welcome adrian!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> thanks!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> got introduced to it at
|
|
last weeks LIFT conference in geneva</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> so thought will have a
|
|
look :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pgroth</cite>> good i'm in the
|
|
right place</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribe: hhalpin</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> hhalpin: I'll try
|
|
to join but can't promise, sorry.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> any sip available?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> hhalpin: k, will check
|
|
irc then this time.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Chair: DKA</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Harry</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ScribeNick: hhalpin</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yuk</cite>> zakim +??P20 is yuk</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> well</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> forget it then</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSED:</cite> Accept <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
as a true record of our last meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>ACCEPTED:</cite> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
are a true record of our last meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i just joined, zakim
|
|
seems sleep</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> do we have invited
|
|
speaker for meeting of May 19?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>That is the most accurate</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>record of actions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/actions/open">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/actions/open</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> what about spending
|
|
a meeting on Social Web Frameworks (second edition) paper and
|
|
preparations for the final XG report?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>it seems that christine's update was the most
|
|
interesting thing that happened over the last bit of time.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>so I'd be happy to discuss that next week.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> We're doing an update on the
|
|
final report</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> how will we
|
|
integrate all the inputs from different groups which have been
|
|
contributed over the past year?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (am i
|
|
connected?)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> can we include this
|
|
in the discussion about final XG report?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> we have a paper on XMPP from
|
|
the OneSocialWeb work from vodafone<br />
|
|
... so we have running code<br />
|
|
... to let people set up their own node</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> we could discuss the
|
|
final report next meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> XMLSpec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> the story...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> the storyline of the final
|
|
report must be discussed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> the narrative</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>I'm happy to review that, although it's been
|
|
discussed extensively in the past.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> yes, and not include
|
|
the XMPP detailed discussion in that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> is there a Table of
|
|
Contents?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hello all, sorry i
|
|
am late</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I don't know the
|
|
narrative so, I think we need another meeting on it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSED:</cite> next meeting to focus
|
|
on final report?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hi pgroth</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> nope</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> mischa</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> editorial
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>ACCEPTED:</cite> Next meeting will focus
|
|
on narrative and structure of final report</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item01">Provenance and the Social Web with invited
|
|
guest Paul Groth from Provenance XG.</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> hi</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ktk</cite>> hi henry</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pgroth</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Social_Web">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Social_Web</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> the best way to proceed
|
|
is to take a look at the work we've done on the use-cases<br />
|
|
... we gathered a use-case at the provenance XG<br />
|
|
... does this reflect the work the issues from the Social Web
|
|
XG?<br />
|
|
... talk about how we've organized the requirements in our
|
|
XG<br />
|
|
... and if that captures what you guys think?<br />
|
|
... if you look at that site<br />
|
|
... we have a scenario about news aggregator<br />
|
|
... imagine a news aggregator (BlogAd) that integrates
|
|
information from Twitter and blogs<br />
|
|
... to make a nice neat site, like an automated Huffington
|
|
Post<br />
|
|
... the key question here is how to determine where it's
|
|
content is coming from<br />
|
|
... the example we use is the trending topic on twitter<br />
|
|
... a tweet about pandas being moved from chicago to
|
|
florida<br />
|
|
... so the aggregator wants to find information about it<br />
|
|
... the particular story should be aggregated<br />
|
|
... so we can track origin and give credit to the originator of
|
|
the story<br />
|
|
... and we'd also like for the originator to maintain
|
|
anonymity<br />
|
|
... not just republishing a tweet<br />
|
|
... but adding metadata to the tweet<br />
|
|
... follow the tinyURL on the tweet<br />
|
|
... might find an image of the panda<br />
|
|
... wants to display that image and figure out license
|
|
associated with that image<br />
|
|
... and whether or not we can license that image from the
|
|
re-use.<br />
|
|
... the originator of this panda tweet<br />
|
|
... may want to retract that information<br />
|
|
... and the blog aggregator should be able to determine<br />
|
|
... if someone has retracted information<br />
|
|
... or if someone dynamically wants to be dis-identified with a
|
|
particular piece of information.<br />
|
|
... this is the broad outline, trying to outline.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, makes
|
|
sense</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>are there any technical solutions that could
|
|
help solve this use-case?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> yes, the question we
|
|
would like to have answered is "what are the types of
|
|
technologies in Provenance used to solve issues such as set
|
|
forth in this use case?"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>I'm happy with your overview :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> can RDF, as defined
|
|
in the rec without named graphs, be used to track provenance
|
|
information from multiple sources?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Open Provenance
|
|
Model</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Provenance
|
|
vocabulary</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> there are a number of
|
|
open solutions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Provenance Mark up
|
|
???</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://open-biomed.sourceforge.net/opmv/ns.html">http://open-biomed.sourceforge.net/opmv/ns.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> in particular, the OPM,
|
|
the Provenance Markup Language (PML)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Provenance Markup
|
|
Language (PML)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> and these solutions
|
|
"represent" provenance<br />
|
|
... and there are then systems that *implement* the capture of
|
|
provenance</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Vocabulary_Mappings">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_Vocabulary_Mappings</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> some involve
|
|
instrumenting the actual operating system (PASS?)<br />
|
|
... other systems look at workflow engines, where workflow
|
|
engines capture everything that happens<br />
|
|
... and then there are programming languages that have
|
|
provenance libraries that can then capture the flow of the
|
|
program<br />
|
|
... the hard part of all of these is that their isolated to one
|
|
system<br />
|
|
... so there is no clear open system</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> Somewhat
|
|
related:<a href=
|
|
"http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=orms">http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=orms</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> the common representation
|
|
system<br />
|
|
... how do we instrument database system for capturing
|
|
provenance?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>YolandaGil</cite>> Paul: you may
|
|
want to describe the overall framework for provenance that we
|
|
have developed in the group: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/User_Requirements#Requirements_for_Provenance_on_the_Web">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/User_Requirements#Requirements_for_Provenance_on_the_Web</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> then the final work is
|
|
formally understaning provenance<br />
|
|
... such as special operators for tracking provenance<br />
|
|
... but overall, we are still in the space of understanding the
|
|
scenarios</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>YolandaGil</cite>> I think the
|
|
framework helps think about provenance issues. There is no
|
|
comprehensive solution space for all these issues, only pockets
|
|
of work.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ?q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> I'm struggling to get the
|
|
social aspect of it<br />
|
|
... when your talking about assigining provenance which means
|
|
that we have to identify the owner?<br />
|
|
... what are your options for identifying the owner, particular
|
|
people, facets of people's identity?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> alot of these solutions
|
|
ground out in an identity framework<br />
|
|
... in the end, we have to know whose responsible for a
|
|
particular item or entity<br />
|
|
... we need to ground out in identity<br />
|
|
... what that identity solution is should be more in social web
|
|
space</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> I have a question
|
|
regarding the suitability of RDF as is<br />
|
|
... whether or not it can track provenance at all<br />
|
|
... are you contributing to the RDF next steps workshop?<br />
|
|
... are standardizing named graphs a good idea?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>pgroth:</cite> we submited a position
|
|
paper<br />
|
|
... we didn't endorse any solution<br />
|
|
... but we came up with some existing solutions<br />
|
|
... that we thought were kinda of good</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> by the way, we
|
|
also submitted a paper on that subject <a href=
|
|
"http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Fabien.Gandon/docs/NameThatGraph/">
|
|
http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Fabien.Gandon/docs/NameThatGraph/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pgroth</cite>> yolanda are you on
|
|
the phone?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> you mean rdf/xml
|
|
does not supprt named graphs. But it is in the semantics I
|
|
believe (or else it would not be possible to do SPARQL)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> we have decided not to
|
|
endorse a particular solution<br />
|
|
... we focussed on a few requirements<br />
|
|
... in particular<br />
|
|
... 3 major issues<br />
|
|
... 1) content of what you are presenting<br />
|
|
... 2) how do you manage provenance</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> what about trust of
|
|
the source of provenance?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> 3) how do you use
|
|
provenance (merging it)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bblfish: n3 is not
|
|
a rec as far as i am aware</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> +1 to look at the
|
|
many possibilities existing in the literature</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> rdf/xml is</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Also I wonder if
|
|
named graphs is needed on the publication side. If you want to
|
|
say that something was written by someone you can say it quite
|
|
easily <<a href=
|
|
"http://bblfish.net/%3E">http://bblfish.net/></a> a
|
|
foaf:HomePage; dc:created <<a href=
|
|
"http://bblfish.net/poeple/henry/card#me%3E">http://bblfish.net/poeple/henry/card#me></a>
|
|
.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> we would be able to
|
|
refer to groups and unions of triples<br />
|
|
... and tell whether or not two entities are the same or
|
|
not<br />
|
|
... we also need to support evolution<br />
|
|
... as any artifact will change over time<br />
|
|
... this comes up in the retraction of tweets</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> bblfish: RDF
|
|
model doesn't have named graphs, RDF/XML does not have a syntax
|
|
for that (as a matter of fact) only SPARQL has GRAPH and source
|
|
primitives</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> the nature of the
|
|
twitter<br />
|
|
... including any transforms of content in republishing<br />
|
|
... the last requirement is the support for entailment<br />
|
|
... some things you can't assert</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> the rdf semantics
|
|
document speaks about graphs, merging them, etc… The rdf/xml
|
|
syntax has a restriction, but that is something else</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> thanks FabGandon,
|
|
and yes am aware of your namedgraph paper</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> so you could try to
|
|
associate if someone like hhalpin said something, he is a w3c
|
|
fellow, etc.<br />
|
|
... these are the three requirements<br />
|
|
... the two requirements that seemed relevant to baseline
|
|
RDF<br />
|
|
... one needs to make provenance assertions<br />
|
|
... to publish a subset<br />
|
|
... of provenance records<br />
|
|
... I don't want to publish my name<br />
|
|
... but I don't mind publishing some characteristics, a
|
|
position, an affliation, an insitution I'm at.<br />
|
|
... fifth requirement is querying<br />
|
|
... we want to bring up these issues.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> btw, for change
|
|
over time, one could use the atom ontology <a href=
|
|
"http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html">http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> so we did refer to
|
|
particular solutions, such as named graphs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>FabGandon</cite>> mischat: one of
|
|
the scenarios comes from Social Web and is called "Named graphs
|
|
to embody the social act of tagging"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> this is similar to what
|
|
we've been talking about in the Social Web XG</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> he is</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> I'm on the line
|
|
now</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>so now I'll summarize that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>oh, perhaps you should speak up now paul!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Three main identity technologies we've been
|
|
looking at</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>1) OpenID - see notes from meeting with Dick
|
|
Hardt, still seems like things may be revised in vNext.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>2) WebID - using SSL plus FOAF, see notes from
|
|
meeting with Henry Story</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>3) Infocards - see work on Higgins project, no
|
|
meeting with them yet, but hoping to get one soon!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> Thomas and our
|
|
chair Dan are hosting a privacy related workshop in london
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/">http://www.w3.org/2010/api-privacy-ws/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> how do you manage
|
|
trust<br />
|
|
... verify it, source it, etc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> there is one underlying
|
|
model of provenance<br />
|
|
... possibly a very long chain, following all these tweets and
|
|
blogs<br />
|
|
... around all these tweets and blogs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/">http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Also note that the
|
|
OneSocialWeb/XMPP work represents another model for
|
|
identity...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> higgin's project ^^
|
|
?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgins_project">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgins_project</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> from our work, we seem to
|
|
think trust is very subjective</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> trust is subjective,
|
|
a judgement, about if an entity is reliable, etc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> if a particular entity or
|
|
assertion is reliable/believable</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> so we think of trust as
|
|
one of the uses of provenance<br />
|
|
... so we have separated the scope of our group<br />
|
|
... and so we hope that many different approaches (like using
|
|
social nets, algorithms) to derive and propagate trust over
|
|
adequate provenance information.<br />
|
|
... whether or not we trust particular provenance
|
|
assertions<br />
|
|
... is where signatures and authentication come in.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>(notes that otherwise things get circular,
|
|
i.e. we have to trust provenance in order to build trust!)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>(so we need some grounding out...)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I took my turn
|
|
:-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>fabien:</cite> happy to hear the
|
|
provenance xg that there are many options<br />
|
|
... so we are happy to see group wants to keep option
|
|
open<br />
|
|
... such as pat hayes' surface proposal, an alternative to
|
|
named graphs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://eclipse.org/higgins/">http://eclipse.org/higgins/</a>
|
|
Higgins projects : Personal Data Store (exciting), Identity
|
|
Services, and Active Client</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>fabien:</cite> as far as I'm concerned,
|
|
we used the use-case<br />
|
|
... of the social web xg in our paper<br />
|
|
... so we want to embody the act of social tagging<br />
|
|
... and we wanted to use named graphs in social tagging</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>(note that we also need to have a session
|
|
discussing tagging, i.e. CommonTag and NiceTag work!)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paulgroth:</cite> we're a bit newer than
|
|
the Social Web XG<br />
|
|
... so we're just starting to look at technical space of
|
|
work</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://iswc2009.semanticweb.org/wiki/index.php/ISWC_2009_Keynote/Pat_Hayes">
|
|
http://iswc2009.semanticweb.org/wiki/index.php/ISWC_2009_Keynote/Pat_Hayes</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>YolandaGil</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paulgroth:</cite> identity is a really
|
|
important part of grounding out</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ?q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> paul: are you from
|
|
the higgins project?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> pgroth: =
|
|
provenance xg</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> can't hear harry
|
|
anymore</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> +q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> I talk, but nobody can
|
|
hear me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> what happened?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>yes we can hear you!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> it was very
|
|
interesting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>sorry, there was a mute button on, due to
|
|
keyboard clacking issues towards beginning of telecon.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paul:</cite> the space is still
|
|
evolving<br />
|
|
... we are starting on OpenID vNext</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.sociallipstick.com/?p=239">http://www.sociallipstick.com/?p=239</a>
|
|
is an interesting read, w.r.t. oauth2 as a foundation for
|
|
openidng</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paul:</cite> but of course WebID and
|
|
FOAF stuff is less mainstream</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> there's a train</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> that's the sound of
|
|
foaf+ssl leaving the station :-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Any perspective on
|
|
XMPP-based identity out there?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Paul:</cite> it will be interesting to
|
|
see for us<br />
|
|
... what the Social Web XG figures out<br />
|
|
... so we're trying to figure out<br />
|
|
... from the space of current provenance work connects the
|
|
existing social web technologies<br />
|
|
... alot of our technology comes from different spaces</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> -q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paulgroth:</cite> a lot of work from
|
|
databases and workflows</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paul:</cite> I wish I had better
|
|
news<br />
|
|
... the identity community is struggling with its own internal
|
|
fragmentation<br />
|
|
... the general belief is that provenance and reputation have a
|
|
pre-condition of reliable identity</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>YolandaGil</cite>> I agree!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paul:</cite> which I think is consistent
|
|
with what the provenance xg is saying</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ?q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>paulgroth:</cite> the ability to embed
|
|
this data<br />
|
|
... so we could embed it in header of image<br />
|
|
... and the whole notion of signatures<br />
|
|
... that is part of this story<br />
|
|
... but we haven't actually finished this off</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> the only thing I would
|
|
want to say<br />
|
|
... is that we've been trying to understand what different
|
|
groups want<br />
|
|
... so when we met with harry at WWW2010 conference<br />
|
|
... there was some requirements that were new from the Social
|
|
Web XG use-cases<br />
|
|
... in particular, the deletion of records in a social
|
|
networking site</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe, and for
|
|
reasoning :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> and what that has to do
|
|
with provenance</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> is there a problem
|
|
with the bridge? or ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1 good point mischat</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I"m back :-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> there are aspects that
|
|
we haven't considered.<br />
|
|
... so if we hope to address all your requirements in our
|
|
document<br />
|
|
... all of us are very aware that we need to present
|
|
solution-space, not just requirement-space</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> agree also that this
|
|
applies to SWXG work!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> the whole concept of
|
|
reasoning<br />
|
|
... there is this notion of inferred triples<br />
|
|
... we don't do reasoning in our triple store as we update and
|
|
delete data constantly<br />
|
|
... does the XG deal with entailment/reasoning in dynamic
|
|
knowledge-bases?<br />
|
|
... should I be putting all my inferred triples in the
|
|
ontology</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> entailment is one of the
|
|
big issues in the RDF next step papers<br />
|
|
... absolutely definitely the case<br />
|
|
... no record will be exhaustive or complete</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> FabGandon, you wanted
|
|
to ask about multiple provenances in reasonning</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> pgroth: ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>FabienGandon:</cite> Can I combine
|
|
provenance from multiple sources?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> multiple personas
|
|
online :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> "Beatnik: Change
|
|
your mind" a simple blog post I wrote about trust <a href=
|
|
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/beatnik_change_your_mind">http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/beatnik_change_your_mind</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yolanda:</cite> so different provenances
|
|
from different repositories</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yay</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> media standards
|
|
trusts are looking at as far as i am aware</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> provenance in newss
|
|
is a dream</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Meeting Adjourned</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> thank you!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pgroth</cite>> yeah provenance in
|
|
news is good</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>>
|
|
www.mediastandardstrust.org/projects.aspx</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pgroth</cite>> thanks everyone</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Next call - final report narrative!!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>trackbot, end meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> thanks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bye bye pgroth</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2010/05/12 16:08:59 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/2/ng/
|
|
Succeeded: s/is new/in news/
|
|
Found Scribe: hhalpin
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: hhalpin
|
|
Found Scribe: Harry
|
|
Found ScribeNick: hhalpin
|
|
Scribes: hhalpin, Harry
|
|
Default Present: +1.781.416.aaaa, hhalpin, +0774811aabb, DKA, MacTed, yoshiaki, Yolanda, melvster, cperey, +0773779aadd, +0752818aaee, mischat
|
|
Present: +1.781.416.aaaa hhalpin +0774811aabb DKA MacTed yoshiaki Yolanda melvster cperey +0773779aadd +0752818aaee mischat
|
|
Found Date: 12 May 2010
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items:
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|