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1715 lines
60 KiB
1715 lines
60 KiB
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<meta name="generator" content=
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"HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 12 April 2005), see www.w3.org" />
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 27 May
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2009</title>
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<body>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>27 May 2009</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd> jsalvachua, cperey, rreck, libby, adam, caribou, hhalpin, tpa, petef, melvster, mischat, tinkster, karl, lubya, dom, AlexPassant, timbl, norm, pmika, ivan, Hakan, uldis</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>Yuk, DanBri, DKA, Milan, Fabien, Raphael, AlexK, Renato</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>hhalpin</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Mischa</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2009-05-27T13:00-15:00Z</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">General Organization</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">Task forces</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">Invited Guests</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item05">Creating User Stories on the
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Wiki</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item06">Invited Guest Telecon: VCard in
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RDF</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
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2009-05-27T13:00-15:00Z</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
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approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 20 May 2009 as a true record</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: approved
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SWXG WG Weekly -- 20 May 2009 as a true record</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
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again Wed, 3 June. scribe volunteer?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Scribe?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> i can do june 10th</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OK, let's have adam
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provisionally as scribe for next meeting.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: move to a
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scribing list</p>
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<h3 id="item02">General Organization</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Liaisons">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Liaisons</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>apassant is a SPARQL liasion</p>
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<p class='phone'>in need of other ones ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Do we have any
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volunteers?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> are the groups that
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need liasons listed on the wiki?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Yes.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I've put myself
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down for Microformats.</p>
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<p class='phone'>are in need of liasons</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> i may try to
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interface with dataportability.org</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Could you add
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yourselves to the wiki?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> to be liaison with
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dataportability.org</p>
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<p class='phone'>toby to be liason with the microformats
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community</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>claudio</cite>> +039011228aahh is
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claudio</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> C'mon no volunteers
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:(</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I volunteered</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> for Social Network
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Portability Group List</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> i may help with
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other groups, with the vcard ietf group</p>
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<p class='phone'>renanto is on the wiki as the liason with
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"Policy Language Interest Group"</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> Uldis Bojars or
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John Breslin can be SIOC liaisons</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> her's uldis</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OK - could you
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check on them.</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> AlexPassant to see about SIOC liason
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-15
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- See about SIOC liason [on Alexandre Passant - due
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2009-06-03].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> sounds good</p>
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<p class='phone'>AlexPassant to check to see if we can find a
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SIOC liaison</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I have added myself
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to wiki as volunteer liason for data portability, diso and
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social network portability</p><a name="action02" id=
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"action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> danbri sketch
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a 5 line template for interaction with other groups (cf
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InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics) [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> karl to
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produce a template for TF deliverables. [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Karl - do you wish
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to explain your template?</p>
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<p class='phone'>Karl put together a template for the user
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stories</p>
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<p class='phone'>karl has put up 2 templates</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> are user stories aka
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use cases?</p>
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<p class='phone'>so user stories seemed too long</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i am developing a use
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case atm</p>
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<p class='phone'>karl suggests we should be concise and to the
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point</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> can someone put the
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URI to the templates into IRC</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Karl's template -
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<a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0103.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0103.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>goal of the templates are to speed up the
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writing</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> thanks Toby!</p>
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<p class='phone'>templates will give us a common look and
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feel</p>
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<p class='phone'>Karl is open to comments/modifications re: the
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templates</p>
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<p class='phone'>hhalpin happy with the user stories
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templates</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> how come petef.a not
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petef?</p>
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<p class='phone'>hhalpin would like a template for the final
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report to be put up on the wiki</p>
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<p class='phone'>hhalpin asks if anyone has any experience in
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this ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Does anyone have a
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final report template as well?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Does anyone want to
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take that action - i.e. finding a template for final
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deliverables?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> microformats.org
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write all specs on mediawiki - perhaps useful?</p>
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<p class='phone'>karl stated that someone should take an action
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to port the final report template to the wiki</p>
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<p class='phone'>can we not look at other XGs?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> can a chair
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close this action -> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/actions/14">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/actions/14</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> i can take a stab at
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it</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to find a good final report
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template and port it to the wiki [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-16
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- Find a good final report template and port it to the wiki [on
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Adam Boyet - due 2009-06-03].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> adam seemed to suggest
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that he would look into the template</p>
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<h3 id="item03">Task forces</h3>
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<p class='phone'>hhalpin asks if anyone has any comments re:
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the organisation so we can move onto the task force issue</p>
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<p class='phone'>Task force issues: should we merge context /
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privacy ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Context and Privacy
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Task Force (Karl Dubost)? For Portability and Architectures
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Task Force (@@)?</p>
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<p class='phone'>so, harry is asking if people like proposed
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task force titles</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Portability and
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Architectures - jsalvachua and petef volunteered last
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telecon.</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> has no preference for
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times, but thinks we need critical mass</p>
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<p class='phone'>and we need a clear agenda</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> signing up to task
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forces where?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Maybe we could
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remind people to sign up for task forces</p>
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<p class='phone'>cperey participation has gone down since the
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start of XG, cperey thinks we should find out how many people
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are interested in each Task force</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> petef : we both
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may start together to push the task force</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> karl *MAY* be the task
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force leader ;)</p>
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<p class='phone'>should we find out how many are interested in
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each task force</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Also interested in
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portability/arch but not leading.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I agree</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Wiki page for each
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of these task forces?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> where?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I don't think we
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do.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I can set up
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template wiki pages for them.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I will draft one for
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portability and architectures</p><a name="action05" id=
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"action05"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to draft wiki pages for task
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forces [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-17
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- Draft wiki pages for task forces [on Toby Inkster - due
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2009-06-03].</p>
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<p class='phone'>toby to set up wiki page re task forces, and
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people should add what they are thinking</p>
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<p class='phone'>portability task force, so hhalpin is
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interested in how the W3C can promote how data can be made
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portable</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i would be happy to
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contribute but would like to have the discussion on the
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list</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I can just hear
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typing.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> said that he will try
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and populate the wiki, regarding a roadmap for the portability
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task froce</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Context_Privacy_TF">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Context_Privacy_TF</a></p>
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<h3 id="item04">Invited Guests</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 4. Invited
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Guests</p>
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<p class='phone'>I will put some stuff on the wiki for privacy
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task force</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hajons</cite>> -q</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Anyone else?</p>
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<p class='phone'>invited speaker lists have been populated for
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the widget topic and the Vcard topic, does anyone else have any
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ideas on this ?</p>
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<p class='phone'>hajons, asks if people should just write to
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the wiki, if they want to join a task force ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Yes, just sign up to
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task force on wiki page</p>
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<p class='phone'>or is there some other protocol</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hajons</cite>> how do we join the
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task forces</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hajons</cite>> ok</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> maybe once the task
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force pages are created, each person can add themselves as a
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member</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> of the task force</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 adam</p>
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<p class='phone'>hhalpin states that we should just add names
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to the list of task forces on the wiki</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i will join the
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privacy task force</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Context_Privacy_TF">
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http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Context_Privacy_TF</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>;)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i dont feel capable
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of leading it</p>
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<p class='phone'>are we going to have invited guest for privacy
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and context ?</p>
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<p class='phone'>harry wodners if there is any mobile
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interest</p>
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<p class='phone'>from the group</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hajons</cite>> yes, I will propose
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a guest on context / mobile</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> tim gave his
|
|
regrets and daniel applequist can't make this meeting in
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particular :(</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Perhaps you can
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explain what the OSLO group is?</p>
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|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Does it have a
|
|
web-page?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Open Sharing of
|
|
LOcations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>christine, is interested the mobile
|
|
technologies, and christine also contacted someone (?)
|
|
external, and they are not interested in developing
|
|
protocols</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>OSLO group announced start earlier this year,
|
|
and they are NOT interested with speaking to W3C</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Open Sharing of
|
|
Location-based Objects (OSLO) - <a href=
|
|
"http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-accord-pushes-location-sharing-between-social-networks/">
|
|
http://uk.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-accord-pushes-location-sharing-between-social-networks/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Christine, perhaps
|
|
stay in touch with them?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>there are others which could speak to the
|
|
w3c</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>but we need some specific questions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Maybe brainstorm on
|
|
the wiki what specific questions would be relevant to these
|
|
mobile operators?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>so that christine could approach people</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Or what is part of
|
|
their problems?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> What could they
|
|
need?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>nokia people did context and mobile stuff, and
|
|
I could ask Mor Naaman to talk about the Zonetag project</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>but i am out of touch with the mobile
|
|
stuff</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>harry asked if we could have a wiki page /
|
|
content regarding the mobile space</p><a name="action06" id=
|
|
"action06"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to add mobile companies to to
|
|
Invited Guests and to brainstorm what exact questions or topics
|
|
would be most interesting [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-18
|
|
- Add mobile companies to to Invited Guests and to brainstorm
|
|
what exact questions or topics would be most interesting [on
|
|
Christine Perey - due 2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>christine would like an agenda to take to the
|
|
mobile experts before contacting them</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item05">Creating User Stories on the Wiki</h3>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> any more
|
|
use-cases?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>there is some work i emailed round from a chap
|
|
from cambridge</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>which had some good examples of how privacy in
|
|
the social web tends to look like</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>karl thinks that we should add some more user
|
|
stories, so that we can get a feel for what the XG should be
|
|
looking at</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> yes i will add a
|
|
story</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I feel we are still
|
|
missing some use-cases regarding businesses and developers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i wanted to get
|
|
privacy classes but no one answered my email</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ah excellent point</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> karl: we should take
|
|
the current user stories and check them against the actual
|
|
social networks such as frienfeed, facebook, etc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> then we can see if our
|
|
cases make sense</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> and then we can
|
|
identify if there are missing ones.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i posted about this</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> great idea</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I've got a
|
|
developer story - I'll create an action for myself.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>harry says that we should have a matrix</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> social network
|
|
matrix</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> ACTION tinkster to
|
|
document developer stories on wiki.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-19
|
|
- Document developer stories on wiki. [on Toby Inkster - due
|
|
2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>showing how social networks uphold privacy</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> almost all the user
|
|
stories that we have are related to privacy/data
|
|
protection</p><a name="action07" id="action07"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to create the matix to be filled
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-20
|
|
- Create the matix to be filled [on Karl Dubost - due
|
|
2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>we have developed at garlik</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> can someone help me
|
|
find classes of privacy</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>but it is for government institutions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>about what they do with your data</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischa - could we
|
|
expland the matrix to deal with commercial social networks?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i could put to a similar oen for social
|
|
networking sites</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Maybe we could look
|
|
through alexa to get out the top social networking sites.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I can do
|
|
that...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>karl says that he will put up a matrix based
|
|
on the current user stories</p><a name="action08" id=
|
|
"action08"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> To retrieve top X social networking
|
|
sites from the top 500 sites of Alexa [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
|
|
find user - To</p><a name="action09" id="action09"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to retrieve top X social
|
|
networking sites from the top 500 sites of Alexa [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-21
|
|
- Retrieve top X social networking sites from the top 500 sites
|
|
of Alexa [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>so that people can look at each individual
|
|
social networking sites</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Karl, what criteria
|
|
do you want for this list?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> the "top" social
|
|
networks?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> cperey, Alexa
|
|
traffic</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> irrelevant</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> for mobile</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites">
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> cperey, what would be
|
|
your criteria? :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> how could we get
|
|
the top X social networking sites for mobile?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Number of unique
|
|
users per month</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> is that list
|
|
available anywhere?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> more relevant for
|
|
all types of social networks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites">
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I have a list (not
|
|
published)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> wouldnt you just
|
|
select out of the top 500 alexa sites?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I thin that list on
|
|
wikipedia uses the company's own data, right?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>there has been some work from cambridge</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>were they looked into</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> I will do Mixi (social
|
|
network in Japan) because I have an account and they don't open
|
|
account to people outside Japan</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>social networking sites</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>T&Cs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8060407.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8060407.stm</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i would like to invite the phd student which
|
|
did the work</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> this is a metrics
|
|
question</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> humming is back</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>looking for the persons link</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'm happy to go
|
|
through alexa if someone else will merge it with wikipedia and
|
|
Christine's list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> how do you measure a
|
|
social network</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> this is returning
|
|
to the metric question</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> OK</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> +1 for merging</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1 merging</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1 merging</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> 30-50 social
|
|
networks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> yes that sounds
|
|
reasonable</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So we merge list
|
|
from alexa\wikipedia with Christine's list?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> by country?
|
|
worldwide?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> worldwide</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I would assume
|
|
world-wide at first, and then later we can break it down by
|
|
country</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> asked if we could merge
|
|
christine's list with the alexa rankign and the wikipedia list
|
|
so as to pick 30 social networking sites</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> unless your data is
|
|
already broken down by country Christine</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I can work with
|
|
Harry on this</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> zakim unmute me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jra40/publications/">http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jra40/publications/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> I would suggest
|
|
you also need IM based networks such as Skype, GTalk, XMPP, if
|
|
they are not included already, as they have significant usage
|
|
and maturity</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>cperey's data is broken down by country</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> on/deck and business
|
|
models.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 30 or 50?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Start with 30 and
|
|
then build if needed?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>cperey would be happy with 30</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> will make a list of the
|
|
last 30</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> top based on number
|
|
of users?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i would like us to check their Terms and
|
|
Conditions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>and see if they actually abide by
|
|
it</p><a name="action10" id="action10"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to make list of top 30 to do
|
|
profiles on, to merge with hhalpin's list on alexa [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-22
|
|
- Make list of top 30 to do profiles on, to merge with
|
|
hhalpin's list on alexa [on Christine Perey - due
|
|
2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> I'll have to find
|
|
someone for <a href=
|
|
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2channel">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2channel</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hajons</cite>> Christine, do you
|
|
list mobile access as a feature too?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we do it as more of
|
|
long-term action</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> data has information
|
|
regarding social networking sites, and their features</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>not terms and conditions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> does your list have
|
|
the feature?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> feature-criteria
|
|
like instant-messaging, and all of that?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>all of the social networking sites on
|
|
christine's list are mobile centric</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> cperey:
|
|
"PC-centric" vs. "mobile-centric" and then a continuum
|
|
inbetween.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> what is a mobile
|
|
access? specific software for mobile devices?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> my cell does the same
|
|
things as my PC</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> sounds good to
|
|
me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> will get her
|
|
mobile-centric list and we should look at it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes rreck, but some
|
|
sites don't well with mobile phones if you don't have a
|
|
gphone/iphone/other dataphone</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>and add an pc-centric social networkings site
|
|
to the cperey's list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> can we check to see
|
|
if any of these sites take advantage of user-context, like
|
|
geolocation from mobile phone?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Sounds great!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>matrix of social networking site</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>and their features</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> where does this
|
|
live?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we should a
|
|
manufacture a wiki page for the list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>we need a wiki page for this list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> yes, please</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> yes, I will fill
|
|
in</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I need to sign off
|
|
and go to another meeting, bye all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> bye cperey</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>vcard and portability issues will have its own
|
|
discussion after this call</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> any more comments
|
|
before we move to vcard?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> such as things we
|
|
are missing?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>does anyone have any issues, there are lots of
|
|
quiet people about?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>have we looked over anything</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Dammit. My phone's
|
|
gone dead.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Still on IRC
|
|
though.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>are we missing anything obvious ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> im not sure</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>this should be an ongoing process</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>if you think we are missing something</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item06">Invited Guest Telecon: VCard in RDF</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 6. Invited Guest
|
|
Telecon: VCard in RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>let the mailing list know</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> im trying to find
|
|
classes of privacy and i cant be the first person to want
|
|
them</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> look at this guys work
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jra40/publications/">http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jra40/publications/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> One advantage of
|
|
the vCard in RDF format (RDF Schema here) is it's use of RDF
|
|
containers to allow complex vCard expressions. Should this be
|
|
kept, and if so, how? Which ones, rdf:bag, rdf:Alt, rdf:Seq?
|
|
How about its use of sub-structure?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>I have to leave this call, it is 3</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>:(</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf">http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> mischat: ty</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> That's the older
|
|
vCard in RDF format</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Aren't
|
|
rdf:Bag/rdf:Alt/rdf:Seq generally seen as poor cousins of
|
|
rdf:List these days?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I have to leave too,
|
|
bye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1) No use of
|
|
containers in vCard at all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 2) Using *only*
|
|
rdf:List</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> why isnt rdf:bag
|
|
enough</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> If the order of
|
|
items is important, use rdf:List, otherwise don't use a
|
|
container at all.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 3) Letting it all
|
|
be a free for all.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i have to leave this chat now :(</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i am sorry</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Someone else can
|
|
scribe?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>right i am sorry i am off now, you are less a
|
|
scribe now</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>bye all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> is there use for
|
|
RDF containers?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: vCard is
|
|
99 percent hCard</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> Really? Surely there
|
|
are gobs of vcards out there never rendered in HTML at all</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: vCard in
|
|
RDF is fairly minimal</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: Lots of
|
|
hCard - between 1-2 billion URLs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Can you share the
|
|
stats on the usage of the attribute?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> hhalpin: But 98%
|
|
of those 1-2 billion URLs are presumably on a handful of domain
|
|
names. Just a few script tweaks could change everything.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> should we merge or
|
|
not do data-typring?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so for complex
|
|
structure is the older version better?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> do we need or/want
|
|
to substructure?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I thin Renato had
|
|
some concern for the subset that wasn't hCard.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> sorry i have to
|
|
leave now, sorry, see you.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> And there was a big
|
|
argument over round-tripping in SWIG a while back...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: I use this
|
|
for modelling my addresses</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: these are
|
|
proper vCards</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: but I can
|
|
see working with well-defined subset, but would like
|
|
round-tripping in this subset</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> There are some
|
|
parts of vCard which are pretty useless.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: made contact
|
|
ontology</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> norm: we should
|
|
stick faithfully to vCard spec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Here is some of the
|
|
structuring I think:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <vCard:EMAIL
|
|
rdf:parseType="Resource"> <rdf:value> corky@qqqfoo.com
|
|
</rdf:value> <rdf:type rdf:resource="<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#internet">http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#internet</a>"/></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> More precisely: I said
|
|
that if we claim to model vCard, we should model it. If not, we
|
|
shouldn't claim to be modeling it.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> You CAN do that
|
|
with the newer hCard</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> The CLASS property
|
|
is useless.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> It's just it's a
|
|
bit confusing because we then use v:EMAIL as a subject, not a
|
|
predicate</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> but we can type
|
|
predicates</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> this I think leads
|
|
to problems with OWL-DL.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> MAILER is pretty
|
|
useless too.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> But I'm OK with
|
|
that.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> (And has been
|
|
removed in latest drafts.)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> CLASS was for what
|
|
groups it is in?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> CLASS has three
|
|
allowed values: PRIVATE, CONFIDENTIAL and PUBLIC.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> You don't need a bifg
|
|
process to make a note obsolete, i think -- jsut change the
|
|
Status Of This Document.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> no process
|
|
issue?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> no process issue.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So, then we can
|
|
just merge it with Renato's?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So, no process</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I would like to NOT
|
|
have more than one URI for vCard</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> The two are these:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf">http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns">http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Then I would like
|
|
to put the SIMPLE stuff up front in Renato's, and put more
|
|
difficult things involving data-structuring and rdf:List
|
|
towards the end of the spec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> There's also a
|
|
silly difference in capitalization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I prefer
|
|
lower-case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Newer URI comes up
|
|
#1 on Google for me, searching "vcard rdf".</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> (without
|
|
quotes)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Norm's
|
|
spec==namespace URI.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I prefer having
|
|
spec URI == namespace URI and then use conneg</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Rennato's
|
|
namespace = <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0">http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0</a>#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I mean, one
|
|
option</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I mean one option
|
|
is that we re-use Renato's URI, then use as the namespace URI
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns.">http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns.</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> And if one requests
|
|
"text/html" for <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns">http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> +1 to timbl's
|
|
suggestion of marking old one as obsolete and recommending
|
|
new.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> That's the issue
|
|
with TR.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> hCard GRDDL
|
|
profile <<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/03/hcard%3E">http://www.w3.org/2006/03/hcard></a>
|
|
uses 2006 namespace.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Well, Norm, I think
|
|
this is at least part of the community.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> Fair enough</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> What is way forward
|
|
here?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> +1 to just an
|
|
"obsolete" note, as long as it's clear.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Proposed
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Harry to check with Renato he is OK
|
|
with:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> action on harry:
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf">http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf</a>
|
|
would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous
|
|
version' link to the current one</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
|
|
find user - on</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> ACTION hhalpin to
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf">http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf</a>
|
|
would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous
|
|
version' link to the current one</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-23
|
|
- Http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf would refer to the new
|
|
version, there will be a 'previous version' link to the current
|
|
one [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-06-03].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that works for me
|
|
and I think Renato will agree with it.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> ... <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf">http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf</a>
|
|
would be kept as the "latest-version" URI, and Reanto's veion
|
|
woul dbe linke dfrom the new one as a "previous version".</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I guess the other
|
|
question is we keep the "2006" namespace?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0">http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0</a>#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> My vote: keep both
|
|
namespaces but only recommend 2006.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> That is Renato's
|
|
namespace URI.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Ivan: suggests
|
|
namespace URIs that tend to use version causes version</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Ivan: So let's use
|
|
"2006"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> I agree that it is
|
|
unwise to use a version number in the URI</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> The year has no
|
|
semantics</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> It's based on
|
|
vCard 3.0.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I am also a bit
|
|
against years in URIs, but that's a minority opinion.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> But you can use
|
|
/ns/vcard if you want</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Ivan: would prefer
|
|
to vCard</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: I would
|
|
agree with "2006"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> or /ns/pim/adr</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> For the time being
|
|
let's use "2006"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Doesn't that just
|
|
create yet another URI to include in SPARQL queries, etc?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> We already have
|
|
one too many.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Ok, so keep the same
|
|
2006 ns</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns">http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: keep
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns">http://www.w3.org/2006/vcard/ns</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> The vCard ontology
|
|
needs examples. At least one that explains you can attach the
|
|
properties to URIs for people, not just cards!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we need a list of
|
|
examples</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> from
|
|
experience.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika:
|
|
Transforming hCard into RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: vCard
|
|
represents both a person and organization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: hCard is
|
|
value of organization and fn are the same, the hCard is
|
|
actually representing an organization and not a person</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> That is not RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: The
|
|
equivalent properties determine type of object</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> So the hcrad >
|
|
vcard mapping has to do some mapping</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: so
|
|
address and whatnot can all apply to person</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: AND
|
|
organization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: Does
|
|
person have vCard etc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: And then
|
|
the vCard have an address etc.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: These
|
|
are two main points people struggle with</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> TimBL: The last one
|
|
is the major one.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> TimBL: Are we
|
|
modeling a file or person</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: The
|
|
documentation leads this question open</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'm noting
|
|
unclarity about this is WHY there's no examples :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I could not
|
|
consensus on this.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> I agree that one
|
|
should moddl the person not the card.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Like you model a
|
|
book, not a library card.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>adam</cite>> yes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> toby: 4.0 includes
|
|
a property "kind" that demarcates between people organization
|
|
and group</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 vCard 4.0</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: which would
|
|
be a functional mapping to a RDF class</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> toby: individual or
|
|
pre-defined group or organization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> toby: also maybe
|
|
one for "place"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Those shoudl
|
|
defintely map to classses.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> how stable is vCard
|
|
4.0?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Should we track
|
|
it?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Not especially
|
|
stable.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> yes, certainly -
|
|
should be able to attach these to Person/Organisation URIs.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ivan: hhalpin said
|
|
having the same person with several vCard is an edge-case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ivan: since I have
|
|
two addresses</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ivan: so in my
|
|
phone I have two entries for my name</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I think vCard 4.0
|
|
drafts have ways of representing multiple sets of contact
|
|
information in one card.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I am liking vCard
|
|
4.0 :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> e.g. this phone,
|
|
this fax and this address are for one set of uses; and this
|
|
phone and this address are for another.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> I've not really
|
|
studied that part of the syntax though.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: so you'll
|
|
miss the fact that these two vCards are not the same in
|
|
RDF.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> a person may have
|
|
different vCards which they "give" to people same as one may
|
|
have different versions of a business card</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: about the
|
|
same person</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: does this
|
|
mean ontology is broken/</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ivan: vCard
|
|
represents me or my address, I think it represents my
|
|
address</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: we do not
|
|
walk about what a vCard represents</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> [ a vcard:Vcard]
|
|
vcard:sameOwnerAs [a vcard:Vcard ] .</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> (No, vCard doesn't
|
|
have a sameOwnerAs property, but we could always define such a
|
|
term.)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so we don't drop
|
|
the vCard class</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we keep it and keep
|
|
domains pretty open-ended</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> I think that's
|
|
because the spec's a bit ambivalent norm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> but in our examples
|
|
we use People and Organizations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> This would make it
|
|
clear to users, since most users will just look at examples</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> timbl: we should be
|
|
default not give it any class.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> should we add this
|
|
to the GRDDL and the spec, this weird hCard algorithm?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> to determine people
|
|
and organization?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pmika</cite>> if fn=org =>
|
|
organization is not possible to express in OWL</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so it should be in
|
|
GRDDL?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Not express it in
|
|
OWL, but *mention* it in RDF spec and then implement it in
|
|
GRDDL.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pmika</cite>> yes, it has to be in
|
|
the hcard-to-rdf conversion</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we should make a
|
|
test case here</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> org class only has
|
|
name and unit.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: So these
|
|
properties should be extended to organization class</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: ALL
|
|
properties can be extended to organization class</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: for
|
|
example, "adr". Strictly, in vCard people have addresses,not
|
|
organizations, but people use addresses directly on
|
|
organizations in hCard.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>>
|
|
contact:SocialEntity ~= foaf:Agent.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> orgname,
|
|
orgunit</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> orgunit can be
|
|
repeated.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> [ a v:vCard ; v:fn
|
|
"Tim Berners-Lee" ; v:org [ a v:Organization ;
|
|
v:organization-name "MIT" ; v:organization-unit "CISAL" ] ]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> is how it
|
|
currently works.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OK, am a bit
|
|
confused.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Organisations are
|
|
messy in vCard RDF because they're messy in vCard.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> org MIT unit CSAIL
|
|
means memberOf [ a Unit; name "CSAIL"; partOf [ a Org; name
|
|
"MIT"]]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> There are
|
|
organisation properties which "hang off" people, plus the
|
|
convention of fn==org whih means that the entire vCard
|
|
represents an organisation.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: allow
|
|
both, have examples for both cases</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> org MIT means
|
|
memberOf [ a Org; name "MIT"]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: show an
|
|
organization where the unit is not used, just give it name and
|
|
some other properties.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: A case
|
|
where the vCard is using to describe an organization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> FOAF's model for
|
|
people, orgs, membership is a lot more sensible.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> TimBL: You need to
|
|
spot these patterns</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika: Yes, you
|
|
need to do that in transform.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Perhaps we can add
|
|
that to GRDDL.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> foaf:member</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Norm?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Has FOAF got org is
|
|
part of biggerOrg?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> skos:widerThan
|
|
:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> no, but dublin
|
|
core has "hasPart/isPartOf"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> foaf:Organization</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> I wonder whether a
|
|
gorup is a SocialEntity</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> don;t see any
|
|
properties tho</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_Organization">http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/#term_Organization</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> "This is a more
|
|
'solid' class than foaf:Group, which allows for more ad-hoc
|
|
collections of individuals. These terms, like the corresponding
|
|
natural language concepts, have some overlap, but different
|
|
emphasis. "</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ok</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> not sure if there's
|
|
any formal subclassing</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> probaby not</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Maybe socialEntity
|
|
should be explicitly allowed to incldeu a group.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> of group, that is</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> may be used
|
|
together with foaf:member ? (":csail foaf:member :mit")</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> not very clear</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> AlexPassant: not
|
|
sure of :csail foaf:member :mit.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> Good Q Alex</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> re. earlier mention
|
|
of SIOC - for representing organisations FOAF would be more
|
|
appropriate that SIOC</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>pmika</cite>> there is no
|
|
equivalent of organization-unit in FOAF and I would not be in
|
|
favor of bringing in a single FOAF class into the VCard
|
|
spec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> :microsoft
|
|
foaf:member :w3c .</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>timbl</cite>> FAOF more appropraite
|
|
thatn SIOC?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Re FOAF and VCard,
|
|
I think we first fix vCard RDF spec, because that's relatively
|
|
easy, and then see what the future of FOAF is in the next
|
|
telecon.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> sounds good</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> previous thread
|
|
on foaf:Group / foaf:Organisation <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2007-January/008396.html">
|
|
http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2007-January/008396.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Norm</cite>> Good luck to all! See
|
|
you on the next telcon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> thanks to norm</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> cheers
|
|
AlexPassant</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> did you get a
|
|
response? doesn't look like it AlexPassant</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>libby</cite>> perhaps bump the
|
|
thread?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> libby:
|
|
unfortunately, no answer - I sent a similar one a year later
|
|
but no answer as well</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> republish it for
|
|
next week?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Formal note, it's
|
|
an IG note, not a SWXG note.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> XGs can't do Notes
|
|
even :)e</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> send us
|
|
examples</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PeterMika will
|
|
examples.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
|
|
adjourned</p>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to find a
|
|
good final report template and port it to the wiki [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> AlexPassant to
|
|
see about SIOC liason [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to add
|
|
mobile companies to to Invited Guests and to brainstorm what
|
|
exact questions or topics would be most interesting [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to make
|
|
list of top 30 to do profiles on, to merge with hhalpin's list on
|
|
alexa [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
|
|
retrieve top X social networking sites from the top 500 sites of
|
|
Alexa [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to create
|
|
the matix to be filled [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to draft
|
|
wiki pages for task forces [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> To retrieve top X
|
|
social networking sites from the top 500 sites of Alexa [recorded
|
|
in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong>danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri sketch a
|
|
5 line template for interaction with other groups (cf
|
|
InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics) [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to produce
|
|
a template for TF deliverables. [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/27-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> AlexPassant to create a liasons list on the Wiki and list himself for SPARQL.<br />
|
|
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin and danbri to invite guest speakers and investigate their schedule. <br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong>danbri to document throwaway IDs on Wiki <br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong>oshani to document takedowns as a user story <br />
|
|
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/05/27 16:34:14 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|