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1413 lines
54 KiB
1413 lines
54 KiB
<?xml version="1.0"?><!-- -*- coding: utf-8 -*- -->
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
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<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
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<head profile="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view">
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<title>RDF Data Access Working Group Face to Face Meeting, 2 - 3 March 2006</title>
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<link rel="stylesheet" href="dawg-style.css" type="text/css" />
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</head>
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<body>
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<div class="nav">
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<a href="../../../">W3C</a> * <a href="./">RDF Data Access
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WG</a>
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</div>
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<h1>RDF Data Access Working Group Face to Face Meeting, 2 - 3 March 2006</h1>
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<h2>hosted in Mandelieu France as part of the <a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/12/allgroupoverview">2005 W3C Technical Plenary week</a></h2>
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<div style="text-align: center">
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on this page: <a href= "#who">Participants</a> * <a
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href="#where">Venue</a> * <a href="#rdl">Reading List</a> * <a
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href="#agenda">Agenda/Actions</a> * <a href=
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"#minutes">Minutes</a> * <a href="#chlog">Changes</a><br />
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nearby: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter">charter</a> * <a
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href="issues">issues</a> * <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/">public-rdf-dawg
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archive</a> * irc <a href="/2005/02/28-dawg-irc">Mon</a>, <a
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href="/2005/03/01-dawg-irc">Tue</a>
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</div>
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<p>The goals of this meeting are:</p>
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<ul>
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<li>to finish our discussion of Service Descriptions and other
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aspects of the protocol</li>
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<li>to resolve the few outstanding <a href="issues">working
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group issues</a></li>
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<li>to plan for last call 17 March and Candiate Rec in
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April</li>
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</ul>
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<address>
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<br />by Dan Connolly, chair
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<br />with thanks to the scribes: KendallC, EricP, Jacek, JosD
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<br /><small>Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
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scribe.perl</a> version 1.115</small>
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<br />
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<small>$Revision: 1.50 $ of $Date: 2006/09/08 10:22:58 $</small>
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</address>
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<address>
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</address>
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<div class="roll">
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<h2 id="who">Participants</h2>
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<p>Nine <a href="./#who">Working Group members</a> participated
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in the meeting, representing six W3C member organizations:</p>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="http://www.agfa.com">Agfa-Gevaert N. V.</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Jos <b>De Roo</b> (aka <i>JosD</i> <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0004.html">intro</a>.
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near <em>Bruxelles, Belgium</em>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.hp.com/">Hewlett Packard Company</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Andy <b>Seaborne</b> (aka <i>AndyS</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0006.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>BRS</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.mindlab.umd.edu/index.html">Maryland Information
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and Network Dynamics Lab at the University of Maryland</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Kendall <b>Clark</b> (aka <i>KendallC</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0045.html">intro</a>
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near <em>College Park, Maryland, USA</em>, <tt>DCA</tt>)</li>
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<li>Bijan <b>Parsia</b> (in part; aka <i>Bijan</i>; <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0216.html">intro</a>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.panasonic.co.jp/global/">Matsushita Electric
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Industrial Co., Ltd. (MEI)</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Yoshio <b>Fukushige</b> (aka <i>Yoshio</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0138.html">intro</a>;
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near <em>Tokyo, Japan</em>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.nttinfo.ntt.jp/">Nippon Telegraph & Telephone Corp. (NTT)</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Hiroyuki <b>Sato</b> (<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0049.html">intro</a>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk">Southampton, University of</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Stephen <b>Harris</b> (aka <i>SteveH</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0094.html">intro</a>;
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near <em>Southampton, United Kingdom</em>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li><a href="http://www.w3.org/">W3C</a>
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<ul>
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<li>Dan <b>Connolly</b>, chair (aka <i>DanC</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0002.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>MCI</tt>)</li>
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<li>Eric <b>Prud'hommeaux</b>, team contact (aka <i>EricP</i>; <a
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href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0001.html">intro</a>.
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near <tt>NRT</tt>)</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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</ol>
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<p>A few observers joined us for parts of the meeting:</p>
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<ul>
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<li>Jordi A Albornoz (IBM) <!-- jordi@us.ibm.com --></li>
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<li>Tim Berners-Lee (W3C)</li>
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<li>Lee Feigenbaum (IBM) <!-- feigenbl@us.ibm.com --></li>
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<li>Ivan Herman (W3C)</li>
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<li>Jacek Kopecky (Digital
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Enterprise Research Institute (DERI)) <!-- jacek.kopecky@deri.org --></li>
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<li>Balaji Prasad (Electronic
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Data Systems (EDS)) <!-- Balaji.Prasad@eds.com --></li>
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<li>Thomas Roessler (W3C)</li>
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<li>Elias Torres (IBM) <!-- eliast@us.ibm.com --></li>
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<li>Danny Weitzner (W3C)</li>
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</ul>
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<p>Regrets were accepted from Alberto, DaveB, Howard Katz, JanneS,
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Bryan Thompson, Pat Hayes, Farrukh Najmi. DaveB, PatH, and JanneS
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joined us by phone and IRC for a few parts.</p>
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<p><em>chair would like to hear from: Jean-François Baget,
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somebody from Network Inference</em></p>
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<p><em>For reference: the <a
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href="http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TP2005/">W3C technical
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plenary registration</a> closed 2005-02-17, and the <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TP2005/registrants#dawg">DAWG
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meeting registrants and observer requests</a> are
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member-confidential</em>.</p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="where">Venue</h2>
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<p>The meeting is in Boston, MA, USA, at the</p>
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<blockquote>
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Hyatt Harborside Hotel (at Logan Int'l airport)<br />
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101 Harborside Drive<br />
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Boston, Massachusetts 02128 USA
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</blockquote>
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<p><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2004/12/allgroupoverview.html#TransportationDetails">
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Transportation Details</a>, <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2004/12/allgroupoverview.html#Venue">Hotel/Venue</a>
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information etc. are orgainzed by the Technical Plenary
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organizers, who can be reached at <tt><a href=
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"mailto:w3t-tpregister@w3.org">w3t-tpregister@w3.org</a></tt>.</p>
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<p>The <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/12/tp5groups.html">room
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allocations</a> are subject to change, but we have been
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tentatively assigned <b>Olympia C</b>, which should accomodate
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16 participants and 6 observers.</p>
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<p>Remote participation is welcome during teleconference sessions
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html#s_1618"
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id="monTel">Monday 2:00pm-5:00pm/19:00-22:00 UTC</a> and <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html#s_1619"
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id="tueTel">Tuesday 8:30am-11:30am/13:30-16:30 UTC</a>. The <a
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href= "irc://irc.w3.org:6665/dawg">usual #dawg IRC channel</a>
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also provides remote access to the meeting (logs, to appear: <a
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href="/2005/02/28-dawg-irc">Mon</a>, <a href=
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"/2005/03/01-dawg-irc">Tue</a>).</p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="rdl">Reading List</h2>
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<p>As discussed <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0133.html">
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15Feb</a>, participants are expected to read the following
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before the meeting. <em>Bonus points for sending review
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comments in email before the meeting.</em></p>
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<ul>
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<li><cite><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050114/">SPARQL
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Protocol for RDF</a></cite> W3C Working Draft 14 January
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2005</li>
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<li><cite><a href="rf1/">SPARQL Variable Binding Results XML
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Format</a></cite> editor's draft Revision: 1.20 $ of 2005/02/28
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19:30:24</li>
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<li><cite><a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/">SPARQL
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Query Language for RDF</a></cite> W3C Working Draft 17
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February 2005</li>
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</ul>
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</div>
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<div>
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<h2 id="agenda">Agenda/Actions</h2>
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<p><em>Before lunch on Monday, WG members are encouraged to
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participate in the <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/interest/meetings/tp2005.html">Semantic
|
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Web Interest Group meeting</a>.</em></p>
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<ol>
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<li>
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<a href="#item01">Convene, take roll, review records and agenda</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION DaveB: to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item02">issue: nestedOptionals</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION AndyS: to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item03">f2f6 proposals</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item04">test suite maintenance</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION SteveH: to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs</li><li>ACTION DaveB: to to propose source test to approve</li><li>ACTION JosD: Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple</li><li>ACTION SteveH: to to propose tests for str() and =~</li><li>ACTION EricP: to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item05">issue: valueTesting</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION JosD: to review value testing section</li><li>ACTION AndyS: to add the above graph test cases</li><li>ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others)</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item06">XSCH review</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item07">issue: punctuationSyntax (turtle, N3, ...)</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION EricP: to propose results of N3 syntax discussion to DAWG</li></ul>
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</li>
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</ol>
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<p><em>Tuesday...</em></p>
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<ol>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_01">introductions</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_02">issue: nestedOptionals</a>
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<b>closed</b>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_03">SPARQL abstract protocol, WSDL</a>
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<ul>
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<li>ACTION KendallC: discuss warnings in the protocol
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spec.</li>
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<li>ACTION Bijan: to propose text (story? etc.) to support
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WSDL requirement</li>
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<li>ACTION EricP: to review WSDL text proposal</li><li>ACTION
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AndyS: to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT *
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and GRAPH.</li>
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<li>ACTION KendallC: to refer to "get the whole graph"
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explanation from protocol spec</li>
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<li>ACTION KendallC: to add WSDL description of protocol to
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editor's draft, propose to WG:</li>
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</ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_04">issue: fromUnionQuery</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_05">issue: protocolRootReferent</a>
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<b>closed</b>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_06">Service Descriptions (SADDLE)</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION KendallC: to incorporate service description discussion notes in protocol spec</li><li>ACTION Bijan: to work on "closeOver" work-alike with SteveH</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_07">Plan for last call</a>
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<ul> <li>ACTION KendallC: to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol draft</li><li>ACTION DanC: to consider adding 'privacy/security' issue, even if we're most likely to just postpone it or mention it in passing in specs</li></ul>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_08">Protocol testing</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_09">update/insert/manage</a>
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</li>
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<li>
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<a href="#item_10">WSDL mapping input</a>
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</li>
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</ol>
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</div>
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<div class="minutes">
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<h2 id="minutes">Minutes</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-dawg-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<div class="meeting">
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<h3 id="item01">Convene, take roll, review records and agenda</h3>
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<p>DanC convened the meeting Monday afternoon with <a
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href="#who">a number of WG members present</a>.</p>
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<p>We <strong class="resolved">RESOLVED to approve <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/att-0202/22-dawg-minutes.htm">
|
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minutes 22 Feb</a></strong></p>
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<p>We reviewed the <a href="#agenda">agenda</a>. <strong
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class="action"><a name="action01" id="action01"
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href="#action01">ACTION DaveB:</a> to consider use of
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xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer</strong> CONTINUES.</p>
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<p><strong class="resolved">RESOLVED: to meet 8 March. regrets
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DanC, Yoshio. KendallC to chair.</strong></p>
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|
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</div>
|
|
<div>
|
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<h3 id="item02">issue: nestedOptionals</h3>
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|
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<ul>
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<li>issue: <a href="issues#nestedOptionals">nestedOptionals</a>
|
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<br />proposals:
|
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<ul>
|
|
<li class="proposal">
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
Optional patterns can occur inside any pattern,
|
|
including another optional pattern, forming a nested
|
|
pattern. The outer optional block must match for any
|
|
nested one to be matched.
|
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<address><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/#OptionalMatchingNested">section 5.5 Nested Optional Blocks</a> of the 17 Feb WD</address>
|
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</blockquote>
|
|
</li>
|
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<li class="proposal">leave nested optional blocks out of the
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syntax of SPARQL QL, e.g. by side condition on the
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grammar</li>
|
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</ul>
|
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</li>
|
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</ul>
|
|
|
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<p>We reviewed the editors' proposal for nested
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optionals. SteveH argued to leave them out of the language
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because the implementation cost is significant and the benefit
|
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to users is unclear. We looked at some examples and discussed
|
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the relationship between a query with nested optionals and an
|
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analagous "flattened" query:</p>
|
|
|
|
|
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<pre>
|
|
OPTIONAL {
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( ?x vcard:N ?vc )
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( ?vc vcard:Given ?gname )
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|
OPTIONAL ( ?vc vcard:Family ?fname ) }
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p>The flattening involves some repetition:</p>
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
OPTIONAL { ( ?x vcard:N ?vc )
|
|
( ?vc vcard:Given ?gname ) }
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OPTIONAL { ( ?x vcard:N ?vc )
|
|
( ?vc vcard:Given ?gname )
|
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( ?vc vcard:Family ?fname ) }
|
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</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p>Jos asked for clarification of the semantics of all optionals:
|
|
<tt>A optional B</tt> might be interpreted in one of two ways:</p>
|
|
<ol>
|
|
<li><tt>A & (B v True)</tt>
|
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<p>which creates unhelpful solutions</p></li>
|
|
|
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<li><tt>A & (B v ~B)</tt>
|
|
<p>where ~B means "B is not a subgraph of the the background graph" (denoted <tt>... log:notIncludes B</tt> in the discussion, alluding to an N3 idiom).</p>
|
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</li>
|
|
</ol>
|
|
|
|
<p>Jos observed a closed-world assumption in the latter
|
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interpretation, and asked if it was by design. AndyS and EricP
|
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said that yes, it was. DanC said he thought the WG was aware of
|
|
this in design discussions around optionals, but suggested
|
|
noting it explicitly in the spec. <strong class="action"><a
|
|
name="action02" id= "action02">ACTION AndyS:</a> to clarify 5.4
|
|
w/r/t closed world assumption</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion returned to <em>nested</em> optionals; Yoshio
|
|
expressed some reservations about the complexity of the
|
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constraints on the use of variable names.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Discussion reached a point where the advocates of
|
|
nested optionals and those that argued to exclude them
|
|
maintained their positions strongly but were unable to come up
|
|
with new reasons to convince the other. DanC considered putting
|
|
the question over the objection of one side or the other, but
|
|
instead encouraged both sides to consider the matter outside the
|
|
meeting. Discussion continued in a <a href="#">later item on
|
|
nestedOptionals</a>.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item03">f2f6 proposals</h3>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
Asemantics S.r.l offers to host F2F meeting in
|
|
Leiden 19-20 May, 2005.
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0072.html">
|
|
Reggiori 31 Jan</a>
|
|
</address>
|
|
</blockquote>
|
|
</li>
|
|
|
|
<li>ACTION: SteveH to propose to host in Southampton
|
|
right after XTech (<a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0197.html">
|
|
done</a></li>
|
|
|
|
<li>Hayes/Florida</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>We considered the above offers to host, as well as an offer
|
|
from AndyS to host in Bristol, and the interaction between a
|
|
meeting of this group and events such as <a href=
|
|
"http://www.xtech-conference.org/">XTech</a>, <a href=
|
|
"http://www.eswc2005.org/">ESWC</a>, and WWW2005 10-14 May.
|
|
There was not a critical mass of support around any of them.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>A one day meeting before (or after?) WWW05
|
|
got some interest. A poll about plans to attend WWW2005 showed -JD +AS ~KC +YF +HS +EP +SH -DC ~-PH.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We acknowledged the risk that if we
|
|
don't decide today when and where to hold our next face-to-face
|
|
meeting, our schedules may fill up, making it inconvenient to do
|
|
so at a later date, but moved on to other items.</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item04">test suite maintenance</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>for ref: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/">test
|
|
materials</a>, <a href="df1">turtle</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We reviewed a few action items:</p>
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION SteveH: to to revise test manifest w.r.t.
|
|
"background" and named graphs</strong> CONTINUES</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION JosD: Jos to propose an optional test based
|
|
on ACTION op:dateTime triple</strong> CONTINUES.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION SteveH: to to propose tests for
|
|
str() and =~</strong> CONTINUES.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC clarified that action by sketching a test:</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
SELECT ?PG WHERE
|
|
?PG dc:creator ?anybody AND ?PG =~ "http://www.w3.org/".
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p>should NOT match <tt>{
|
|
<http://www.w3.org/>
|
|
dc:creator "anybody" }</tt></p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION DaveB: to to propose source test to
|
|
approve</strong> CONTINUES</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>AndyS noted <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/">GRAPH
|
|
tests untrusted-graph*.rq</a> and <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/source-named/manifest.n3"
|
|
>source-named/manifest.n3</a> and we looked them over, along
|
|
with the <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#rdfDataset">definition
|
|
of RDF Dataset</a>. DanC's action regarding definitions for
|
|
SOURCE is WITHDRAWN.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC asked steve how the <a href="tests/">test suite page</a>
|
|
is generated from the manifests and such. SteveH explained that
|
|
it involves 3store and some perl scripts which he has cheked
|
|
in. He sent a <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0223.html">transcript
|
|
of running the makefile</a>. <strong class="action">ACTION
|
|
EricP: to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results
|
|
page</strong>.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item05">issue: valueTesting</h3>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>issue: <a href="issues#valueTesting">valueTesting</a></li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION JosD: to review <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#tests">value
|
|
testing section</a></strong> CONTINUES. (partial <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0127.html">
|
|
progress</a>)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>AndyS and EricP presented their design for valueTesting in
|
|
the form of some example from the <tt><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprEquals">tests/data/ExprEquals</a></tt>
|
|
directory:</p>
|
|
|
|
<iframe width="90%" height="15em" src="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprEquals/query-eq-1.rq">tests/data/ExprEquals/query-eq-1.rq</iframe>
|
|
|
|
<p>evaluated against</p>
|
|
<iframe width="90%" height="15em" src=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprEquals/data-eq.ttl">tests/data/ExprEquals/data-eq.ttl</iframe>
|
|
|
|
<p>Ivan noted that rdflib reads <tt>"1"</tt> as <tt>1</tt>,
|
|
but KendallC pointed out that its handling of datatypes is known to have bugs.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We also looked at <tt><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprEquals/query-eq2-1.rq"
|
|
>tests/data/ExprEquals/query-eq2-1.rq</a></tt>, which shows how
|
|
the <tt>=</tt> syntax relates to functions and operators,
|
|
obsoleting <tt>==</tt>, <tt>eq</tt>, and <tt>ne</tt>. Yoshio
|
|
pointed out that the editor's draft still shows <tt>==</tt> in
|
|
some places; the editors acknolwedged this as a bug.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>TimBL suggested re-using the
|
|
investment in valueTesting test cases by copying them to graph
|
|
test cases. e.g.</p>
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
... (?x1 :p ?v1 )
|
|
(?x2 :p ?v2 )
|
|
AND ?v1 = ?v2
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p>has an analog...</p>
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
(?x1 :p ?v)
|
|
(?x2 :p ?v)
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION AndyS: to add the above graph
|
|
test cases</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed not-equal tests, in particular the relationship
|
|
between "known to be not equal" and "not known to be equal":</p>
|
|
<pre>
|
|
SELECT ... WHERE
|
|
(?exp :results ?x) (?exp2 :results ?y) AND ?x != ?y
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p> against <tt>{ exp1
|
|
result "1/1"^^rational. exp2 result "2/2"^^rational)</tt>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>EricP thought the editor's design would have the <tt>!=</tt>
|
|
test fail, which TimBL supported. But AndyS walked through the
|
|
evaluation in more detail and found that the <tt>!=</tt> would
|
|
turn into <tt>fn:not(... = ...)</tt> and since the <tt>=</tt>
|
|
test would fail, the <tt>fn:not(... = ...)</tt> test would
|
|
succeed. EricP and others seemed confident this could be
|
|
fixed.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>PatH asked about the case of <tt>"abc"^^integer</tt>. DanC
|
|
encouraged that to be captured as a test case. Other cases that
|
|
seem worth testing include:</p>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li><tt>"10"^^byte = "10"^^integer?</tt></li>
|
|
<li><tt>"10"^^long = "10"^^integer</tt></li>
|
|
<li><tt>"10"^^nonnegative = "10"^^integer?</tt></li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION EricP: to propose to close
|
|
valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or
|
|
others)</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Jacek pointed out the list of datatypes in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#DTYPEINTERP">a section of the RDF
|
|
model theory spec</a> and suggested they should all be supported
|
|
by SPARQL. DanC encouraged Jacek to discuss such a proposed
|
|
requirement in the break, and pointed to the XSCH document as
|
|
reasons why not, which brought us to our next agendum</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item06">XSCH review</h3>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20050127/">XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL</a> Editors' Draft Date: 2005/01/27 20:06:45</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
<p>PatH is done reviewing it. As a WG, we don't see any issues
|
|
to raise at this time, though we may take another look after
|
|
it's published as a WD. EricP's action to review it is
|
|
WIDTHDRAWN.</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item07">issue: punctuationSyntax (turtle, N3,
|
|
...)</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC invited TimBL to discuss SPARQL punctuationSyntax with
|
|
the group, after consulting a few WG members in the break, as a
|
|
way of addressing the risk around our <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf4.html#item18">decision
|
|
in Helsinki to adopt <tt>(s p o)</tt> syntax over EricP's
|
|
objection</a>. Since this wasn't on the agenda well in advance
|
|
and some of the advocates of the status quo weren't present,
|
|
DanC said we would make no binding decisions here. Kendall
|
|
advised adding this to the issues list, and DanC agreed:</p>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>issue: <a href="issues#punctuationSyntax">punctuationSyntax</a></li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>We reviewed the examples from Helsinki; after some discussion
|
|
of what exactly EricP had been proposing then, DanC projected a
|
|
number of examples and we went over them together:</p>
|
|
|
|
<pre>
|
|
|
|
SELECT *
|
|
WHERE { ?p ?s ?o }
|
|
|
|
# NO
|
|
# SELECT *
|
|
# WHERE { ?p ?s ?o }.
|
|
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
|
|
PREFIX foaf: <http://example/foaf#>
|
|
|
|
SELECT ?me ?you
|
|
WHERE { ?me foaf:knows ?you. ?you foaf:knows <fred> }
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
|
|
@@
|
|
WHERE { ?me rdf:type foaf:Person.} # trailing thingy in lexer
|
|
WHERE { ?me rdf:type foaf:Person .} # parses same as above
|
|
|
|
|
|
WHERE { GRAPH ?g { ?g dc:source myPartOfUriSpace:foo.rdf } } # sh, ar like this
|
|
# tibml doesn't like it. cwm, jos, timbl note this implies an N3 change
|
|
# SH notes not doing this involves a difference from turtle
|
|
# closer to XML (but not quite, see above)
|
|
# yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
PREFIX foo: <http://www.w3.org/>
|
|
SELECT ?p ?o
|
|
WHERE { ?s ?p ?o . ?o ?p2 ?o2}
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
PREFIX foo: <http://www.w3.org/>
|
|
CONSTRUCT { ?s foo:bop ?o2 .
|
|
?o2 foo:bing ?o }
|
|
WHERE { ?s foo:bar ?o .
|
|
?o foo:baz ?o2 }
|
|
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
WHERE { :bob :brothers (:joe :sam) }
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
WHERE { ?doc dc:title ?txt; dc:author ?who }
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
|
|
WHERE { ?who :has ?car, ?boat. ?car rdf:type :Auto. ?boat rdf:type :AquaVehicle }
|
|
WHERE { ?who :has ?car, ?boat; foaf:knows ?f1, ?f2 }.
|
|
# commas in XML names?
|
|
|
|
##
|
|
|
|
WHERE { ?who a foaf:Person } # yes
|
|
|
|
WHERE { ?who = ?whoElse } # *not* short for owl:sameAs
|
|
|
|
#
|
|
SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :brother [ in Army ], :mother [ in Navy] . }
|
|
|
|
SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :borthers (:pete :sam). }
|
|
|
|
# AK notes AND can/could go as a result.
|
|
|
|
SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :age ?n. FILTER ?n + 1 < 5 }
|
|
SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :age ?n. SUCHTHAT ?n + 1 < 5 }
|
|
SELECT ?who { ?who :age ?n. WHERE ?n + 1 < 5 } # EP, SH, ? perfer. like SQL, in a way
|
|
|
|
# no SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :age ?n . ?n + 1 < 5 } # AFS: list () interferes
|
|
#SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :age ?n AND ?n + 1 < 5 } # KC, SH prefer
|
|
#SELECT ?who WHERE { ?who :age ?n. (?n + 1 < 5) } # ew
|
|
|
|
</pre>
|
|
|
|
<p>One summary was "turtle plus variables".</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>SteveH said his users
|
|
are mostly folks dumping databases into RDF/XML; he supports
|
|
turtle input and noone uses it.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>There was some discussion of whether it's essential to choose
|
|
just one syntax. The possibility of a number of presentation
|
|
syntaxes, with an exchange syntax in XML, was discussed.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>The details of qname syntax, especially where periods are
|
|
allowed, was discussed at some length. <em><a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2005/02/28-dawg-irc#T21-52-42">IRC notes
|
|
starting 21:52:42Z have some additional technical
|
|
details</a>.</em></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC observed some support for "turtle plus variables" and
|
|
the editors seemed interested to persue it. DanC asked if the WG
|
|
would like to see a proposal edited into the editor's
|
|
draft. Preference seemed to be for a separate email
|
|
proposal. DanC was to send the examples we discussed to EricP
|
|
who would send them to the WG. <strong class="action">ACTION
|
|
EricP: to propose results of N3 syntax discussion to
|
|
DAWG</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>Then we recessed for the evening.</em></p>
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_01">introductions</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC introduces the WG members and some of the observers to
|
|
each other. Elias, Lee, and Jordie from IBM described some of
|
|
their work on a Semantic Web toolkit for life science
|
|
research. At the <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/swls-ws.html">W3C Workshop on
|
|
Semantic Web for Life Sciences</a>, the IBM position paper,
|
|
<cite><a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swls-ws/2004Sep/0069.html"
|
|
>Knowledge Integrated Modeling (KIM), an application for the
|
|
Semantic Layered Research Platform (SLRP)</a></cite> discussed
|
|
their work.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_02">issue: nestedOptionals</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>continued from <a href="#item02">Monday's
|
|
discussion...</a></em></p>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>issue: <a href="issues#nestedOptionals">nestedOptionals</a>
|
|
<br />proposals:
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li class="proposal">
|
|
<blockquote>
|
|
Optional patterns can occur inside any pattern,
|
|
including another optional pattern, forming a nested
|
|
pattern. The outer optional block must match for any
|
|
nested one to be matched.
|
|
<address><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/#OptionalMatchingNested">section 5.5 Nested Optional Blocks</a> of the 17 Feb WD</address>
|
|
</blockquote>
|
|
</li>
|
|
<li class="proposal">leave nested optional blocks out of the
|
|
syntax of SPARQL QL, e.g. by side condition on the
|
|
grammar</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
</li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>After some review of the arguments for (design coherence) and
|
|
against (implementation complexity) and some straw polls, we
|
|
<strong class="resolved">RESOLVED to close issue nestedOptionals
|
|
as per <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/">http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-rdf-sparql-query-20050217/</a>,
|
|
with <em>JosD</em>, <em>KendallC</em>, <em>Bijan</em>, <em>SteveH</em>
|
|
abstaining</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>We began to discuss issue fromUnionQuery, but it may turn
|
|
out to be addressed by either the protocol or the query language
|
|
(or both). Then we began to discuss service descriptions, which
|
|
exposed some assumptions about the protocols. So we turned our
|
|
attention to the protocol for a bit. See below for <a
|
|
href="#item_04">discussion of fromUnionQuery</a></em>, <a
|
|
href="#item_06">discussion of service descriptions (SADDLE)</a>
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_03">SPARQL abstract protocol, WSDL</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>We looked at <a href="proto-wd/">SPARQL Protocol for RDF
|
|
editor's draft</a> Revision: 1.17 of 2005/02/26 21:51:28</p>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION KendallC: discuss warnings in
|
|
the protocol spec</strong> continues.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC went over <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/prot26">his input in the
|
|
form of a protocol spec</a>. Kendall noted this treatment of
|
|
Warning might be too specific to HTTP caching. Bijan said this
|
|
treatment of the protcol doesn't meet Fujitsu labs's needs
|
|
because it doesn't have an abstract layer so that they can
|
|
relate it to SOAP. He sent <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0224.html">some
|
|
notes on Fujitsu's implementation experience</a>, with <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/att-0224/OWLBase.wsdl">OWLBase.wsdl</a>
|
|
attached. Regarding "ACTION: EricP: to investigate WSDL/SOAP
|
|
encodings of SPARQL protocol" EricP offered <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/02/25-SPARQL-Prototocol/SPARQL-P.wsdl"
|
|
>SPARQL-P.wsdl</a>. We reviewed our <a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#d4.10">Addressable Query Results</a> design objective, and discussed WSDL's ability to describe GET as well as POST interactions.</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC noted that the number of requests for a WSDL description
|
|
seems to be reaching a critical mass, though we don't have a
|
|
relevant requirement. He asked to discuss use cases.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Bijan said that Fujitsu does large-scale integration; their
|
|
middleware uses RDF & OWL, they have a protocol that allows
|
|
querying<br /> ... they want to interoperate with everything
|
|
that uses Web services<br /> ... all the MS Office operations
|
|
now support SOAP<br /> ... so they want to be able to call
|
|
uniformly SPARQL or Word. Observers from IBM said their
|
|
experience was similar. <a href=
|
|
"http://java.sun.com/products/jms/">JMS</a> was another example
|
|
of a protocol besides HTTP where a SPARQL binding would be
|
|
useful. A poll showed considerable support for adding this
|
|
requirement, and we <strong class="resolved">RESOLVED: A WSDL
|
|
description shall be included in the protocol specification,
|
|
<em>AndyS</em>, <em>JosD</em> abstaining.</strong> <strong
|
|
class="action">ACTION Bijan: to propose text (story? etc.) to
|
|
support WSDL requirement</strong> <strong class="action">ACTION
|
|
EricP: to review WSDL text proposal
|
|
</strong>
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Bijan asked should the story mention or not mention specific
|
|
companies? DanC expressed a small preference for
|
|
specifics. Kendall said the other stories are "sanitized"; DanC
|
|
said that mentioning one specific company brings some obligation
|
|
to mention others, to be fair.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>EricP introduced a <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/02/25-SPARQL-Prototocol/">protocol spec based on WSDL</a>, aimed at readership that doesn't already know WSDL<br />
|
|
... the URI encoding is like CGI parameters<br />
|
|
... it has parameters and normative binding to HTTP</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Then we did an excercise to (a) learn WSDL and (b) compare the abstract protocol from the editor's draft with the WSDL description EricP had drafted. DanC edited <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0250.html">a WSDL description</a> in realtime:</p>
|
|
|
|
<iframe src="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0250.html" width="80%" height="20em">
|
|
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0250.html">wsdl thingy</a></iframe>
|
|
|
|
<p>We skipped over much of the material on types and faults. The
|
|
OperationPoint class seemed to match WSDL's notion of
|
|
<dfn>endpoint</dfn>.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed <tt>WITH</tt>/<tt>FROM</tt> QL syntax
|
|
vs. putting it in the protocol, and what to do if it shows up in
|
|
both places. We explored putting it in the protocol, and
|
|
deferred whether to keep it in the QL. Bijan asked about putting
|
|
it in an attribute, but Jacek pointed out that we need to use an
|
|
element in order to match the WSDL URI operation style.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC paused before transcribing the getGraph abstract syntax,
|
|
asking if it belonged. Andy argued that while it seems very
|
|
useful, it doesn't seem specific to SPARQL. JacekK pointed out
|
|
that WS-Transfer specifies a a GET operation. Kendall said that
|
|
we still need to discuss how to get the whole graph. Steve and
|
|
others offered <tt>CONSTRUCT * WHERE GRAPH <uri> (?x ?y
|
|
?z)</tt>. That wasn't quite right, but discussion of the details
|
|
was taken offline: <strong class="action">ACTION AndyS: to
|
|
explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and
|
|
GRAPH.</strong> <strong class="action">ACTION KendallC: to refer
|
|
to "get the whole graph" explanation from protocol
|
|
spec</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>Then we discussed getServiceDescription. EricP said it looks
|
|
like the namespace document problem. JacekK pointed out that
|
|
discovery is already handled in the protocols (HTTP OPTIONS,
|
|
SOAP WS-MetadataExchange). AndyS said it seems orthogonal and
|
|
not somethign we should require. DanC asked about including it
|
|
in a separate interface, and that got quite a bit of support.
|
|
It was PROPOSED: that the SPARQL WSDL description shall have 2
|
|
interfaces (SPARQLQuery and SPARQLDiscovery), each with one
|
|
operation, but a poll showed insufficient support. <strong
|
|
class="action" id="wsdlProposal">ACTION KendallC: to add WSDL
|
|
description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to
|
|
WG.</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_04">issue: fromUnionQuery</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC attempted to summarize the long history of this issue:
|
|
if you say <tt>FROM URI1, URI2</tt> is that the union, the merge
|
|
or what? In our <a href="ftf4.html#item07">Helsinki discussion of fromUnionQuery</a>, we had three
|
|
groups of options<br />
|
|
... the URIs were only hints in the first version<br />
|
|
... then: drop FROM/WITH and leave it to the system<br />
|
|
... later: specify what the keywords do</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>AndyS reported on the current editor's draft: the FROM
|
|
accepts list but we don't say how. He noted that the test cases
|
|
need to specify the dataset even if there's no QL syntax for
|
|
it. He noted a proposal from Alberto based on comments: to
|
|
s/WITH/FROM/ ; s/FROM/FROM NAMED/.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Andy re-iterated the <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-dawg-uc/#r3.5">local queries
|
|
requirement</a>: sometimes we don't have a protocol. SteveH
|
|
argued that there's always some API... </p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed possible intereactions, e.g. in case of
|
|
<tt>mySvc?query=$query;from=http://ex/data.rdf</tt> where <tt>$query =
|
|
SELECT ?x FROM http://exb/datab.rdf</tt> .</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC pointed out the separate "RDF content URIs" field of the
|
|
<a href="http://librdf.org/query">Redland Rasqal RDF Query
|
|
Demonstration</a>, and said that appealed to him. AndyS pointed
|
|
out that <a href="http://sparql.org/query.html">sparqler</a>
|
|
does it the other way. DanC polled for support for taking
|
|
FROM/WITH out of QL; 3-ish seemed in favor. DanC asked the
|
|
editors what the impact would be; AndyS said it seems to involve
|
|
taking out <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#specifyingDataset">section
|
|
9</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Andy clarified that no, this doesn't impact the
|
|
<tt>GRAPH</tt> (nee SOURCE) keyword syntax. That brought up some concerns from SteveH about how RDF datasets work in the case of <tt>SELECT ?a WHERE GRAPH ?g ...</tt> vs <tt>SELECT ?a WHERE ...</tt>. Andy noted a <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0070.html">28 Jan message with a number of example datasets</a>. We looked at <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#sourcePlainGraph">an example in section 8.4</a>. </p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>After quite a bit of discussion, much of which escaped the
|
|
chair and the scribe, <strong class="resolved">Contingent on
|
|
agreement to <a href="#wsdlProposal">a proposal to have DataSet
|
|
in our WSDL description</a>, we RESOLVED: to remove section 9
|
|
Combining WITH and FROM from QL; i.e. remove WITH/FROM
|
|
syntax. abstaining: <em>AnydS</em>, <em>Yoshio</em>,
|
|
<em>HiroyukiS</em> abstaining.</strong>.</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_05">issue: protocolRootReferent</h3>
|
|
|
|
<ul>
|
|
<li>issue: <a href="issues#protocolRootReferent">protocolRootReferent</a></li>
|
|
</ul>
|
|
<p><strong class="resolved">RESOLVED: that
|
|
doing WSDL addresses protocolRootReferent. abstaining: KC,
|
|
SH</strong>.</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_06">Service Descriptions (SADDLE)</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>We returned to <a href="proto-wd/">SPARQL Protocol for RDF
|
|
editor's draft</a> Revision: 1.17 of 2005/02/26 21:51:28, which
|
|
discharges his actions: KendallC to to think about predicate to
|
|
relate html-forms and svc descriptions, and how this goes into
|
|
the spec; KendallC to Add section for service descriptions and
|
|
put graph specifying in it to start it off; to wit: <a href=
|
|
"proto-wd/#saddle">section 7. SPARQL Service Advertisement and
|
|
Discovery Language (SADDLE)</a>. Kendall updated us on his
|
|
progress: I did some changes to naming, added
|
|
invocableOperations ...<br /> ... added saddle:operationTarget
|
|
to tell me which graphs I can interact with<br /> ... added
|
|
acceptSerializationFormat...
|
|
<br />... nervous about acceptSerializationFormat, redundant to
|
|
content negotiation<br />
|
|
... another issue - how do you identify the various subsets
|
|
of OWL<br />
|
|
... invocableOps can contain IDs of the ops in our
|
|
protocol<br />
|
|
... can vary according to graphs, can choose not to support
|
|
GetGraph on a huge graph</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>SteveH asked how to express support for extended functions (&ex:myFunc(?x)), and reiterated hopes forsomething
|
|
where you wouldn't have to repeat the properties shared
|
|
between services</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC reiterated (from Helsinki) the observation that protocol
|
|
description is an arbitrarily large design space and that
|
|
service descriptions are open ended and can use arbitrary RDF
|
|
vocabularies, so we should focus on our own experience: let's
|
|
look for terms where two parties can demonstrate interop.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Yoshio asked if saddle:supportsDatatype was limited to XSD
|
|
types; Kendall clarified: no, any datatype is fine. Questions
|
|
about operations on datatypes led to no clear answers.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC asked how OperationPoint works. Kendall said that if
|
|
something is an OperationPoint, you can GET a service
|
|
description there. DanC said he thought servicing queries at uri
|
|
X needn't imply offering a service description at
|
|
X. <em>Discussion of service description resumed after <a
|
|
href="#item_03">SPARQL abstract protocol, WSDL</a>.</em> DanC
|
|
edited <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/att-0225/ftf5-desc.txt">some
|
|
service description material</a> on-screen. The result was:</p>
|
|
|
|
<iframe width="90%" height="20em"
|
|
src="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/att-0225/ftf5-desc.txt">tf5-desc.txt</iframe>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed the impact of a dependency on WSDL 2.0. Bijan
|
|
said he expects a second last call soon. EricP said he thinks
|
|
the part we depend on is not likely to change. Bijan said that
|
|
the WSDL/RDF mapping is likely to finish at the same time as
|
|
WSDL 2.0, so depending on it doesn't lengthen our
|
|
schedule. AndyS and DanC expressed some concerns. Bijan said it
|
|
would be useful to have also WSDL 1.1 (perhaps
|
|
non-normative).</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DanC:</cite> do we need a
|
|
superinterface to the two we already have? will we have to do
|
|
transitive closure?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bijan:</cite> the RDF mapping will do
|
|
that transitive closure itself</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>DanC:</cite> we need to redecide on
|
|
the interfaces</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed the combination of the SPARQLQuery and
|
|
SPARQLDiscovery interfaces. Bijan pointed out that interface
|
|
inheritance will be done "before" mapping to RDF, so the
|
|
combination interface won't show up in RDF. <strong
|
|
class="resolved">RESOLVED: that the SPARQL WSDL description
|
|
shall have 3 interfaces (SPARQLQuery and SPARQLDiscovery and
|
|
SPARQLQueryAndDiscovery), each with one operation, contingent on
|
|
agreement to adopt <a href="#wsdlProposal">a WSDL
|
|
description</a>a WSDL description; <em>AndyS</em>, <em>JosD</em>
|
|
abstaining</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>Discussion resumed briefly after lunch...</em></p>
|
|
|
|
<p><strong class="action">ACTION KendallC: to incorporate
|
|
service description discussion notes in protocol
|
|
spec</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
<p><em>Discussion resumed after a break, when Bijan re-joined
|
|
us. We fidgeted to get the whiteboard near the phone and
|
|
such...</em></p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Bijan explained how in OWL, sometimes the "deductive closure"
|
|
isn't well-defined, especially in cases involving
|
|
disjunction.
|
|
We discussed an example: <tt>:bob
|
|
:loves [ a [ owl:unionOf (:Students :Faculty) ] ]</tt>
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed SteveH's
|
|
"computer science lit" service... it's "close over RDFS" in
|
|
some sense. we're considering: <tt> _:ukLitSvc
|
|
saddle:closedOver rdfs:semantics.</tt>
|
|
<strong class="action">ACTION Bijan: to work on "closeOver"
|
|
work-alike with SteveH</strong></p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p><em>Chair is considering acknowledging ServiceDescription as
|
|
an issue.</em></p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_07">Plan for last call</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC reviewed the WG schedule: LC was to be 17
|
|
March but things have changed.
|
|
Kendall asked how long LC should last; DanC said it has to be at least 3 weeks, and it should be long enough to get responses regarding our dependencies, e.g. did we use XQuery functions and operators correctly? Speaking of which, PaulC wandered in and noted that XQuery
|
|
plans to go to last call (really last call this time, he thinks)
|
|
4 Apr, and DanC agreed to get DAWG to review it during the 3 to 6 weeks that follow.</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>We discussed whether all our docs should go to last call
|
|
together or separately. Issues that span documents argue for
|
|
going to LC together, but not compellingly. Bijan estimated that
|
|
he could get better review if the QL and protocol went
|
|
separately. There was some support for doing LC 1st and protocol
|
|
a few weeks alter. Test case development was likely to go that
|
|
way too.</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>Bijan asked DanC to consider adding the XML Schema connection
|
|
to VBR to the issues list. Yoshio asked about privacy/security.
|
|
<strong class="action">ACTION KendallC: to add "since we're
|
|
using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol
|
|
draft</strong>. <strong class="action">ACTION DanC: to consider
|
|
adding 'privacy/security' issue, even if we're most likely to
|
|
just postpone it or mention it in passing in specs</strong>
|
|
</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>Kendall noted 2 open issues for QL: fromUnionQuery and
|
|
punctuationSyntax.
|
|
DanC expresed a hope to close
|
|
syntax issue in the March 8 telecon.</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p>Our best guess for Maybe LC candidate (for review by WG
|
|
members, leading to an LC decision) for the QL is March 31.
|
|
Regarding schedule and availability, AndyS plans to take
|
|
vacation April 1 - 8. For protocol, best guess is maybe 4 Apr
|
|
for LC candidate.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_08">Protocol testing</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>We briefly discussed protocol testing, with no actions nor
|
|
decisions.</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_09">update/insert/manage</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC added this item to the agenda to take advantage of input
|
|
from observers. He noted that <a
|
|
href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter#update">section
|
|
2.4 Graph Update Protocol</a> of our charter is listed under
|
|
"out of scope", though Kendall has pointed out that the text
|
|
doesn't clearly rule it out of scope. DanC said some notice to
|
|
the W3C membership seemed in order before beginning substantive
|
|
work on update in any case, and an activity proposal seemed like
|
|
the wise thing to do, to get explicit mandate; then a WG should
|
|
start with story-telling/use-cases/requirements and so on. He
|
|
invited each person at the table to tell their experience with
|
|
update protocols and give input to the standardization
|
|
discussion.</p>
|
|
|
|
<dl>
|
|
<dt>DanC</dt>
|
|
<dd>We have a <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Diff">research paper on diff/delta</a>.</dd>
|
|
<dt>Bijan</dt>
|
|
<dd>There is considerable prior work on ontology evolution. We
|
|
have done some work on a Diff format for RDF graphs and OWL
|
|
ontologies using Annotea. If not updating the expressed/told
|
|
graph, deleting is difficult. Biggest issue: if yr not
|
|
updating the told graph only, then you have choices about
|
|
deletion... Deleting an inferred triple might require truth
|
|
maintenance. Like the view update problem, only worse.
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Kendall</dt>
|
|
<dd>Being able to add/delete told triples would be of near
|
|
term use to UMD clients</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Lee/IBM</dt>
|
|
|
|
<dd>Only working w/
|
|
told graphs right now, but everything is
|
|
collaborative, so they need to be able to ready *and*
|
|
write.
|
|
<p>V. interested in
|
|
change history over graphs for
|
|
auditability</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>interested in transactions for graph changes; and managing
|
|
resource contention ... locking, update/merge before write
|
|
... do we use XML documentsfor atomicity of changes?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p> notification of graph changes by giving server a pattern --
|
|
via JMS... pub/sub... triggers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p>... with
|
|
reification, we've be able to address [update/delete]
|
|
individual statements</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>SteveH</dt><dd> Have been
|
|
playing with SQL-style INSERT and UPDATE... but deployed
|
|
code is just POST/PUT to replace or augment an exisitng
|
|
graph
|
|
</dd>
|
|
<dt>HiroyukiS</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p>welcome
|
|
DanC's proposal from a user's perspective</p>
|
|
|
|
</dd>
|
|
<dt>Yoshio</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p>Is it necessary to
|
|
delete/make others delete obsolute triples? just asserting
|
|
them as obsolute is not enough? (leaving the others decide
|
|
whom/what to believe) ... worried about
|
|
user experience if there is inconsistency consequence of an
|
|
update</p>
|
|
|
|
<p> just
|
|
asserting statements is enough. leave for user to decide what
|
|
it correct. ... inconsistency
|
|
could be nature of RDF world</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
<dt>TimBL</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p> subscription
|
|
to a form of query is the dream... interested
|
|
in applying a patch derived from graph to another</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
<dt>DanC for BrianT</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
|
|
<p>DanC: BrianT's
|
|
customers are gangbusters on update</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>Kendall</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p>Working against
|
|
told triples is worth standardizing</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>AndyS</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p> groupware
|
|
problems different from RSS diffs. solving all is like
|
|
boiling the ocean ... can we pick a
|
|
subspace for a charter?</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
<dt>JosD</dt>
|
|
<dd>
|
|
<p>JosD: we cope wiht
|
|
changes on different levels ... clinical
|
|
practice guidelines change slowly... additive
|
|
behavior, taking snapshots</p>
|
|
</dd>
|
|
|
|
</dl>
|
|
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>kendall</cite>> JacekK: do we
|
|
want to do any kind of graph update thing?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> OK, Yoshio, I
|
|
understand. BUt SPARQL is aimed as RDF-specific QL, right?
|
|
And RDF itself has no inconsistency.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> TimBl: lots of
|
|
different apps and different diff alogorithms, but the diff
|
|
format was always the same</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>kendall</cite>> we want something
|
|
that seems a lot more primitive (?) than diffing and patching
|
|
graphs and sending those around. But -shrug-</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yoshio</cite>> patH: so my guess
|
|
is the current issue is something to be treated elswhere than
|
|
SPARQL deals...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> Yes, i wuld hope so.
|
|
We ahve anough trouble with ===.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AndyS</cite>> It's an informing
|
|
open discussion</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> OK, didnt mean to
|
|
rain on parade.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> KendallC: want a
|
|
method in the protocol to send triples to a graph. also want
|
|
delete (results of a query)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> While being open,
|
|
though, I suggest worrrying too much about consistency isnt
|
|
useful, eg dont thik we need paraconsistency to handle it in
|
|
practice.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> timBl: sounds like
|
|
what we are doing</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> JoseD: can you
|
|
delete rules?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> Can anyone stop you
|
|
deleting rules?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> timBl, I'd like to
|
|
know more about what you guys are doing. POint?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> i think it was
|
|
quesiton of implementation</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> JacekK: do we want
|
|
direct change of the graph? or submit somehting to a
|
|
processor that may or not result in a change.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>kendall</cite>> some people wld
|
|
argue that much POST usage is mis-usage. :></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> ... more like
|
|
POST.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> Jacek: when people
|
|
use POST, they defer to the service.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> ... maybe SPARQL
|
|
should stay at that level</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> ... leave it up to
|
|
higher level protocols</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>patH</cite>> kendall, imagine
|
|
trying to track changes in a dynamic graph resource, eg
|
|
produced from a newsfeed.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AndyS</cite>> Hmm - update/diff
|
|
language vs/as well as update services</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>kendall</cite>> hmm, i'll chew on
|
|
that, path</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> ack eric`</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> kendall, you wanted
|
|
to ask what a separate way of representing a graph diff buys
|
|
over using sparql queries.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> PatH, feel free to
|
|
dial</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> TimBl: updtae is
|
|
like a query except UPDATE, DELETE or BECOMES instead ofn
|
|
CONSTRUCT</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>AndyS</cite>> +1 to update
|
|
language appraoch</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> KendallC: any truth
|
|
maint?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> TimBl: no. need to
|
|
get functional properties</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> AndyS: seem to be
|
|
in a rules world</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>ericP</cite>> JacekK: we are
|
|
mapping to HTTP GET and update mappings would probably get
|
|
mapped to PUT, DELETE, POST</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> JacekK, you wanted
|
|
to respond to "just doing a service that updates a graph" and
|
|
"full deployment of PUT and DELETE" as opposed to
|
|
availability</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<div>
|
|
<h3 id="item_10">WSDL mapping input</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p>Bijan showed two WSDL/RDF mappings and collected input on
|
|
them. <em>chair neglected to ask Bijan to share a copy for the
|
|
record.</em> Pros and cons of each were discussed, with no
|
|
particular conclusion.</p>
|
|
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<p> ADJOURN.</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
<div><h2 id="chlog">Changes</h2>
|
|
<p>Changes since <a
|
|
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0288.html">11
|
|
March call for review</a>:</p>
|
|
|
|
<pre><!-- log starts on next line, not this one -->
|
|
$Log: ftf5-bos.html,v $
|
|
Revision 1.50 2006/09/08 10:22:58 eric
|
|
~ correct dates
|
|
|
|
Revision 1.49 2005/03/15 16:09:26 connolly
|
|
- removed status disclaimer
|
|
- removed "who to scribe?" note
|
|
- KC's action on warnings continues
|
|
- cleaned up update discussion some
|
|
- truncated WSDL mapping notes some
|
|
- noted WSDL decisions continent on WSDL proposal
|
|
- finished scribe list
|
|
- re-ordered TOC to match page order
|
|
- added changes since call for review
|
|
|
|
</pre>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|