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569 lines
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569 lines
20 KiB
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<head>
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 03 Feb
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2010</title>
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</head>
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<body>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>03 Feb 2010</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0000.html'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>conrad, davy, erik, silvia, thierry, yves, jack</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dd>davy, raphael, michael</dd>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>erik</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>conrad</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1 Admin</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='phone'></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 03 February
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2010</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
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conrad</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1 Admin</h3>
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<p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 27
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January 2009 telecon:</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: to
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accept the minutes of the 27 January 2009 telecon</strong></p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-127</p>
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<p class='phone'>Thierry/Yves to look for the charter
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extension</p>
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<p class='phone'>extension has not yet been granted, but should
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not be an issue -- just w3 process</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> submission of MTAP SI on
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Semantic Multimedia ongoing</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tmichel</cite>> the extension
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should have discussed at last week W3M meeting, but is was
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not</p>
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<p class='phone'>2. F2F meeting</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tmichel</cite>> plh said it should
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be discussed this afternnoon</p>
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<p class='phone'>Draft Agenda: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>venue and location are booked by thierry and
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erik</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> over the next 2 weeks we
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will have to fill in the agend</p>
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<p class='phone'>a</p>
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<p class='phone'>we have to go to last call in march, there is
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a lot to discuss, it will be important</p>
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<p class='phone'>there will be 5 there, hopefully the others
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can attend via phone</p>
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<p class='phone'>3. SPECIFICATION:</p>
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<p class='phone'>Raphael to fix the weird character in the spec
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document</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> CLOSED: <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jan/0102.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jan/0102.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>3.1 Media Fragment URI syntax: (Yves)</p>
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<p class='phone'>Bug in the npt specification:</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Nov/0023.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Nov/0023.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Dom:</cite> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jan/0093.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jan/0093.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> we changed from abnf to
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ebnf (?) yves, is your action still valid?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> yes</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> is there an issue with
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the change?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> no, i am using abnf for
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other things, but i'm sure ebnf shall be similar</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> then we only have the
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parsing issues dom mentioned, which are minor</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> the npt definition was not
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exactly correct, that was the only thing holding up the
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grammar</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> yes, as discussed in
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email, just a small change</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> i will look at that before
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the f2f</p>
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<p class='phone'>(but i will be away next week)</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.2 Protocol for URI fragment Resolution in
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HTTP</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> any problem with the
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changes proposed by Philip?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> no, they clarify things,
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they might have made the document structure more complicated.
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philip also proposed some changes to document structure but
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they make sense</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> i agree</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, i would be against a structure
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where normative and non-normative are not separated. I would
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like them to be clearly spaced</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> we should put an overview
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table at the end of the document of what is normative and
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informative, rather than spreading it through the document.
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most of it is obvious, but it is important to put the info in
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one place</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, the nice thing about a table is
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that if it indexes all the normative stuff, you can use it to
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find what you actually need</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, not sure i like the idea that it
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should be clear from the wording, because then in non-normative
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text you have to refrain from using SHOULD, MUST etc.</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, it should be clear from the layout
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which is which</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, comments in-line about what is
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normative is not useful</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, in SMIL spec, we put in text
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markers for people who use screen readers etc. (as well as
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colors)</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, in the published document there
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are only text markers -- the visual markers were not
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included</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, make a note now, put these in if we
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come to committee draft</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, the xml format we use has a way to
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distinguish paragraphs, so if we use that we can modify the
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layout in stylesheet</p>
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<p class='phone'>thierry, distinguish in screen and aural?</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, just use the xml to make a clear
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distinction between normative and informative text</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tmichel</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-SMIL3-20081201/smil-structure.html">
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http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-SMIL3-20081201/smil-structure.html</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>thierry:</cite> we should put a div with
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class="normative" or class="informative"</p><a name="action01"
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id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to mark up the spec with
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normative and informative classes [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-134
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- Mark up the spec with normative and informative classes [on
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Erik Mannens - due 2010-02-10].</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>thierry:</cite> do we also want to have
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text saying "this section is normative"?</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, that can be part of the style</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, i guess the table is already in the
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document, but a table at the end with a reference to the
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normative parts would be nice</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>ACTION-123:</cite> Yves to come up with
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ABNF for header syntax</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-123 Come up
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with ABNF for header syntax notes added</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> action 133 is ongoing</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> re: action 123, need to
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find the proposal from the archives</p>
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<p class='phone'>Review of the complete Section 5.2.1 for group
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approval</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> postponed (we have
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not all yet reviewed it)</p>
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<p class='phone'>erik, this should be done before the f2f</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> i have read it and am
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happy with it, apart from minor issues in the ebnf; dom also
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suggested to put the ebnf syntax together in one place; maybe
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we should just repeat it all at the end</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, he made a few changes to make it
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easier to read, along the lines of the html5 spec</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> i'm happy with what he's
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done, i don't have any issues</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> ok, tbc</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.3 Rendering of Media Fragments URI in
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UA:</p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION-130</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia to draft a new subsection in the
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Section 5 regarding the rendering in the UI of media fragments,
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at least for the temporal dimension</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> i sent an email just
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before this meeting<br />
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... i've put a paragraph into section 5.1.4</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-overview-interpretation">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-overview-interpretation</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>so basically the action is done</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> davy, i've made a mention
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of spatial,track dimensions</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>davy:</cite> ok, i'll work over that
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too</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, i really like silvia's suggestion,
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but we should make sure that in the protocol we have enough
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detail to actually implement it</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, which touches on issue 5, similar
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to silvia's note about the temporal domain, but in the spatial
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domain</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, we should ensure that the server
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provides any information such as width, height etc. so that
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clipping can be implemented client-side</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, we need to specify these things for
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each dimension, please add a paragraph</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, also at the end of section 5.1.4,
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a very simple graphic of a timeline of a video playing would be
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handy to help with understanding the intention</p>
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<p class='phone'>close action-130</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-130 Draft a
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new subsection in the Section 5 regarding the rendering in the
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UI of media fragments, at least for the temporal dimension
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closed</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> davy,erik to extend section 5
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regarding spatial and track dimension [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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find user - davy,erik</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> erik to extend section 5 regarding
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spatial and track dimension [recorded in <a href=
|
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-135
|
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- Extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension [on
|
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Erik Mannens - due 2010-02-10].</p><a name="action04" id=
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"action04"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> davy to create a diagram of video
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timeline to explain temporal dimension [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-136
|
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- Create a diagram of video timeline to explain temporal
|
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dimension [on Davy Van Deursen - due 2010-02-10].</p><a name=
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"action05" id="action05"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> jack to check that 5.1.4 is
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implementable using the protocol [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-137
|
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- Check that 5.1.4 is implementable using the protocol [on Jack
|
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Jansen - due 2010-02-10].</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.4 Discovery of 'Track' and 'Named'
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fragments:</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> nothing to discuss yet,
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this is being worked on in ogg</p>
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<p class='phone'>3.4, 3.5 to be discussed later on</p>
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<p class='phone'>5. TEST CASES: (Michael)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> i'm in favour of making
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next phone conf all about test cases, for a whole hour</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, last week we mentioned that the foms
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people would be keen to have an indication on which sections
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are fairly ready, and my suggestion was that section 5.2.1 can
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be implemented</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> the only indication of
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stability is publishing LC or CR</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> perhaps we don't need to
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specify that the mechanism for handling client-side fragments
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involves http byte-range requests: just specify that "if the
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client can already seek over the network, honor this fragment
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syntax"</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, last week we decided that rather than
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pulling out parts of the document which are stable, we simply
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mark within the document how mature each part of the document
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is, so implementers can go ahead</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, whereas last call etc. is really for
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the whole document; we don't want to hold back implementers</p>
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<p class='phone'>Yves, the parts which are unstable may lead to
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changes in the parts we think are stable now</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, unlikely as that section is really
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trivial</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, that section has very little value
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with out parts of chapters 3, 4</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, i like the sentiment about
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allowing implementers to start implementing stuff, but ...</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, yes, but we have already been through
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section 3 substantially, any changes will be minor</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, i probably agree, but then even if
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we mark sections as "stable" we should specify that it may
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change anyway. we don't want to be editing for all eternity
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like the whatwg is doing</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, we should start having
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implementations. we are really close to having the temporal
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stuff finalized, even though the headers etc. may still be
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under discussion</p>
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<p class='phone'>silvia, if we keep working on the spec without
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any implementations, it's not going to move ahead in a
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reasonable amount of time</p>
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<p class='phone'>jackjansen, if we mark these things as not
|
|
"stable/unstable" but "reaonsably stable, mature" etc. that is
|
|
fine with me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>silvia, "ready for test implementations" would
|
|
be a useful indication</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> fine by me too</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>4. ISSUES</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> conrad, I'd like
|
|
a note "for test implementation" or something.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>issue-4.1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> postpone non-active
|
|
issues</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>5. TEST CASES</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>jackjansen, is a phone conference the best
|
|
medium for discussing details of test cases?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>silvia, i agree -- we should prepare the group
|
|
for the meeting re: test cases, but it is up to michael</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>silvia, whether we prepare for the test cases
|
|
next week or not, we should at least talk about it then</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>6. IMPLEMENTATION:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> any news?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>none</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>all ongoing</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>7. AOB</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>none</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> davy to create a
|
|
diagram of video timeline to explain temporal dimension [recorded
|
|
in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> davy,erik to
|
|
extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension [recorded
|
|
in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> erik to extend
|
|
section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to mark up
|
|
the spec with normative and informative classes [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> jack to check
|
|
that 5.1.4 is implementable using the protocol [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2010/02/03 11:01:13 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/davy/thierry/
|
|
Found ScribeNick: conrad
|
|
Inferring Scribes: conrad
|
|
Present: conrad davy erik silvia thierry yves jack
|
|
Regrets: davy raphael michael
|
|
Agenda: <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0000.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0000.html</a>
|
|
Found Date: 03 Feb 2010
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: davy erik jack
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
|
|
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|