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1003 lines
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1003 lines
34 KiB
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 09 Dec
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2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>09 Dec 2009</h2>
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<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-swxg-irc">IRC
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log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>danbri</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>mischat</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">2005 -
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http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/foaf-galway/
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?</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 09 December
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2009</p>
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<p class='phone'>no one is chatting bblfish</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Nobody talking on
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phone.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> danbri: i propose
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skipping all admin and going straight to henry</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ok :-)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> hearing no
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objections ...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> who is
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scribing?</p>
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<p class='phone'>i can scribe</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yes please!</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> what's the script
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notation to say</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> scribe: mischat</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> scribe: mischat</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ok, if people want
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they can download a presentation I have made recently <a href=
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"http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/">http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> This will be
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useful, or just "if people want"?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> which one?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> (it's 45MB, so just
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start now. I won't go through all of it, but it will make
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things easier)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> if you don't have
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keynote, take the pdf</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> yes</p>
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<p class='phone'>yes</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> yes</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> +1 skip</p>
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<p class='phone'>any actions which people want to talk about
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?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> danbri proposing
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skip admin</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> skipping!</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> Henry Story</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ----</p>
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<p class='phone'>henry story to talk about foaf+ssl</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
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"http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/">http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/TheSocialWeb-SantaClara.pdf">http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/11/TheSocialWeb-SantaClara.pdf</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>henry works for Sun Mircosystems, and has been
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travelling around europe talking about distributed social
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networks</p>
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<h3 id="item01">2005 - <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/foaf-galway/">http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/foaf-galway/</a>
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?</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>semantic web helps us solve a problem which is
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required to have a distributed social network</p>
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<p class='phone'>issues with single sites such as facebook,
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where you have to log in, and then add all your friends one by
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one</p>
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<p class='phone'>there are loads of social networks about</p>
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<p class='phone'>recreating your social graph on every SNS is
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tedious and causes problems</p>
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<p class='phone'>such issues, and the notion of ownership of
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data has led to the data-portablity movement</p>
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<p class='phone'>scoble had an issue where he got kicked out of
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his social network, after attempting to remove all of this
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data</p>
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<p class='phone'>users don't own the data they upload to social
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networks</p>
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<p class='phone'>social graph, and the issue that you only have
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access to your own social graph, but the service providers have
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a view of everyones' social graph</p>
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<p class='phone'>companies with secrets cant use existing
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social networks, re: data ownership problems</p>
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<p class='phone'>there is a big brother privacy issue, we may
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not want people to look at what you are doing on a given social
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networking start</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (2000 even)</p>
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<p class='phone'>danbri and libby started foaf in 2000 :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> timbl: 1989!</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf project enables a distributed social
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network</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (I have a pile of
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foaf slides here <a href=
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"http://www.slideshare.net/danbri">http://www.slideshare.net/danbri</a>
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)</p>
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<p class='phone'>current social networks are really popular,
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and they have good working UIs, and have engaged users</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> for timbl, see
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html">http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html</a>
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The "Personal Skills Inventory". "Personal skills and
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experience are just the sort of thing which need hypertext
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flexibility. People can be linked to projects they have worked
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on, which in turn can be linked to particular machines,
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programming languages, etc. "</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (ie. this use case
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was envisaged in the original design for the Web itself)</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf and the semantic web, allows for data to
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be linked together between different sites</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf allows for people to be linked
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together</p>
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<p class='phone'>people get given a URI</p>
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<p class='phone'>a foaf:Person URI</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> :)</p>
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<p class='phone'>these URIs give you the ability to produce a
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global namespace for people</p>
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<p class='phone'>semantic web, builds on logic</p>
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<p class='phone'>allows for sentences to be built about things
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in the world</p>
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<p class='phone'>semantic web, mathematics of merging and
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mapping information</p>
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<p class='phone'>in order to show how foaf works, and how the
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Semantic Web can work, henry built a foaf-based Address
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book</p>
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<p class='phone'>this address-book allows for webpages to
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dragged and dropped into the address book app</p>
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<p class='phone'>and it grabs your foaf file</p>
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<p class='phone'>and it then populates your address book with
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information about the person just added to your address</p>
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<p class='phone'>the address book makes http requests to
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people's foaf files, and extracts information about that person
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and adds this information into your address book</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (public's good and
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all, but not everyone wants to share everything :)</p>
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<p class='phone'>the problem people had with the Address Book
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was that it required that all your information be in public
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foaf files</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf gives us data-ownership</p>
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<p class='phone'>people can host their own info</p>
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<p class='phone'>it doesn't solve the action creation
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complexity problem</p>
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<p class='phone'>it solves a bunch of problem by not touching
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them, i.e. privacy</p>
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<p class='phone'>henry has found that in order to support
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privacy</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (we had some old
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experiments with PGP ... <a href=
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"http://usefulinc.com/foaf/encryptingFoafFiles">http://usefulinc.com/foaf/encryptingFoafFiles</a>
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... but it was limited to the tiny subset of us who could
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remember their PGP / GPG passwords and how to use them :)</p>
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<p class='phone'>there was a need to implement a form of
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authentication</p>
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<p class='phone'>and identification</p>
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<p class='phone'>for the last 20 years we have relied on
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usernames and password</p>
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<p class='phone'>but imagine a distributed social network,
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where people host their own data, you would have to hold
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accounts with usernames and passwords on all of your friends
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servers</p>
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<p class='phone'>this just wouldn't work</p>
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<p class='phone'>then came openid</p>
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<p class='phone'>openid gave each person a global identifier or
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a URI</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ( slide 53 = openid
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)</p>
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<p class='phone'>the protocol is a tad complicated</p>
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<p class='phone'>there is a lot of back and forwarding when
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doing an openid login</p>
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<p class='phone'>attribute exchange of openid is not
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restful</p>
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<p class='phone'>which makes it hard to link to information</p>
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<p class='phone'>there are also known security issues with
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openid ?</p>
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<p class='phone'>openid is very much compatible with the
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foaf+ssl work</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf+ssl uses the client-certificate
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infrastructure built into modern web-browsers</p>
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<p class='phone'>it is built on top of https</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://foaf.me/">http://foaf.me/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
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"http://foaf.me/">http://foaf.me/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>you can create your own certificate and your
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own foaf file</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (is foaf.me down
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right now?)</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>melvster:</cite> ^^ ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> seems to be down for
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me</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> sorry yes</p>
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<p class='phone'>it works in FF, opera , safari</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> appears down at
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this second</p>
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<p class='phone'>but not IE</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> fixable? :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> im looking ...</p>
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<p class='phone'>slide 57 has a UML diagram</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Generating keys in
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IE requires ActiveX and none of us have been bothered to look
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at that yet.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> <a href=
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"http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/foaf.me">http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/foaf.me</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>yay to links</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> here <a href=
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"http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl">http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>links to most of the topics covered can be
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found on the esw wiki</p>
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<p class='phone'>^^</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> here the protocol
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description <a href=
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"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/foaf_ssl_adding_security_to">
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http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/foaf_ssl_adding_security_to</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> slide 57 = 59 = 62
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?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> slide 61</p>
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<p class='phone'>once you have created your certificate, you
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can log in to a foaf+ssl enabled site by simply presenting your
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cert to the site</p>
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<p class='phone'>in order to attach a URI to a certificate</p>
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<p class='phone'>foaf+ssl has used a property in the X.509
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header</p>
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<p class='phone'>property X?</p>
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<p class='phone'>this property should point to your foaf
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file</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> (And Peter
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Williams also said that we're using it pretty much how it
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should be used.)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ' X509v3 Subject
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Alternative Name:'</p>
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<p class='phone'>thanks</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> here <a href=
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"http://esw.w3.org/topic/WebId">http://esw.w3.org/topic/WebId</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>and if foaf file has the public key of the
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cert in question, then the cert is said to be associated to the
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foaf:Person URI</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> very sorry guys
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... seems to be an ISP issue with foaf.me ... trying to trace
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the issue ...</p>
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<p class='phone'>which is now being called a WebID</p>
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<p class='phone'>so whoever owns the private key of the public
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key stated in the foaf file is said to be the person identified
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in the X.509 certificate</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> <a href=
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"http://esw.w3.org/topic/WebID">WebID</a></p>
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<p class='phone'>danbri asks about the level of security in
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foaf+ssl and the robustness of the desig</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> esp re first step,
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where you're loading a public foaf file</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... how much of a
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difference do we care re https vs http URIs for the public
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files</p>
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<p class='phone'>http resource can be made subject to man in
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the middle attack</p>
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<p class='phone'>so for more security critical applications one
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should use an https WebId</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> wondering role for
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xmldsig-signed markup here ...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Use FOAF+SSL to
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log into a social network, but not into a bank.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> since foaf.me is
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down ... worth noting that this has all been built into
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Virtuoso & OpenLink Data Spaces ...</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> docs -- <a href=
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"http://ods.openlinksw.com/wiki/ODS/VirtODSFOAFSSL">http://ods.openlinksw.com/wiki/ODS/VirtODSFOAFSSL</a>
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-- can be followed against <a href=
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"http://myopenlink.net/ods/">http://myopenlink.net/ods/</a> or
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<a href=
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"http://my.openlinksw.com/ods/">http://my.openlinksw.com/ods/</a>
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(which servers are up and running) or you can put up your own
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pretty quickly.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> dnssec</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> tinkster, that's a
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nice first step towards getting mother maiden names, birthdays
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etc...</p>
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<p class='phone'>using the WOT</p>
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|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> HAR</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>back in the day danbri was playing with the
|
|
signed foaf files with pgp</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>but the issue was that not that many people
|
|
used pgp</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>danbri asked if henry thought it was a good
|
|
idea to revisit such things</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>henry started talking about signing sub-graphs
|
|
in RDF</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i don't understand why you would want to sign
|
|
a sub-grapg</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> J Carroll paper
|
|
mentioned by danbri - <a href=
|
|
"http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-142.pdf">http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-142.pdf</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>digitally signing rdf : <a href=
|
|
"http://xmlns.com/wot/0.1/">http://xmlns.com/wot/0.1/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> danbri: 2 scenarios
|
|
... user signs locally and pushes the result up to server
|
|
(atompub etc); or else the host signs, so even if they don't
|
|
use ssl everywhere, you could know livejournal/hi5 etc's pubkey
|
|
and be sure the file wasn't interfered with</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>foaf+ssl makes it easy to have multiple
|
|
certs</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>you can also easily invalidate a cert if you
|
|
loose a machine</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>using pgp, if you loose your private key, you
|
|
will have to ask people to re-sign your key</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>danbri proposes a method of pushing data
|
|
signed data via atom-pub or similar to a site such as
|
|
facebook</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (with eg garlik as a
|
|
file-signing intermediary ...)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>our foaf validator, can tell you if your foaf
|
|
file is signed properly</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>but yes, signing a foaf file for someone else
|
|
does sound interesting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (I'm not gonna hold
|
|
my breath waiting for dns to be secured :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> mischa, ... just to
|
|
say 'garlik saw this, and got it from the party whose openid x
|
|
checked out...' ... but not necc to vouch for its contents</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
|
|
ask about attacks when not https</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>it would be nice to see if there was a method
|
|
in the X.509 external where you could say only send information
|
|
to a party if it is signed ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://openid4.me">http://openid4.me</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://openid4.me/">http://openid4.me/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> also <a href=
|
|
"http://github.com/akbarhossain/openid4me">http://github.com/akbarhossain/openid4me</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>understood danbri</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>openid4.me allows you to use an openid login
|
|
form</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (garlik or other
|
|
biz-s could also fact check specific claims, like
|
|
workplaceHomepage ... )</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> AX: not yet
|
|
programmed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> sreg works</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>openid4.me allows you to use your WebID, and
|
|
your foaf+ssl cert to log in openid providers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>one important piece which is yet to be solved,
|
|
that is content negotiation on foaf files</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>so in openid you can decide which bits of
|
|
personal information you want to send to a service provider</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>there is no solution as of yet in the foaf+ssl
|
|
world</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://foaf.me">http://foaf.me</a> appears to be back ...
|
|
?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>yup it is melvster</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> openid <a href=
|
|
"http://openid4.me">http://openid4.me</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/sketch_of_a_restful_photo">http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/sketch_of_a_restful_photo</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>this is a restful implementation of how you
|
|
may want to interact with a restful web service using your
|
|
foaf+ssl WebID</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>isn't this a similar example as presented in
|
|
the openid spec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ah</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>yes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>you are right</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oauth use photo
|
|
sites as their intro use case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> it's actually
|
|
closer to oauth WRAP (the newer version) than oauth</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>i recall the oauth example in the spec uses
|
|
the photo service</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>foaf+ssl wants to be make us of linked data,
|
|
semantic web, RDF.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>in the future we can imagine a world where
|
|
every user has their own website</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> sounds like <a href=
|
|
"http://unite.opera.com/">http://unite.opera.com/</a> :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>or mac.com user pages</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> see also <a href=
|
|
"http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/social/2009-June/000540.html">
|
|
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/social/2009-June/000540.html</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://ladistribution.net">http://ladistribution.net</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> anyone have
|
|
questions for henry?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ack?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/identity_in_the_browser_firefox">
|
|
http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/identity_in_the_browser_firefox</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> anyone with
|
|
questions, use "q+ to ask about blahblah" here please</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> see <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-protocols/">http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-protocols/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> here <a href=
|
|
"http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-protocols/">http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-protocols/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>people should join the foaf-protocol mailing
|
|
list</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> me too, bye</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> mischa: with
|
|
foaf+ssl you need something inside your browser ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... do you think
|
|
we're moving to a world where ppl carry their browser around
|
|
with them</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... or they use
|
|
machines from anywhere, unless you brin your cert</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish: i was a bit
|
|
worried initially re signing others' foaf files with my
|
|
pubkey</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ppl can selfsign
|
|
their certs, ... very easy to create new certs, ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> foaf.me should let
|
|
you get a list of certs you have, ... click on them and cancel,
|
|
... to create one for 10 mins (eg. a net cafe), ...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... also another
|
|
tech, USB cards, which can be linked with firefox so you can
|
|
put your key on usb card, they'll do the encryption</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> without privkey
|
|
being shared anywhere</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (missed detail)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish: by basing
|
|
on tls/ssl, we build on existing expertise</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... they relied a
|
|
bit too much on ldap data structures</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> so too much pre-web
|
|
design</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> lacking web-style
|
|
flexibility/ namespaces</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ldap doesn't allow
|
|
you to have a global directory</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Also, too much
|
|
emphasis on top-down certificate signing, rather than
|
|
self-signed.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (x500 did, kinda?
|
|
-danbri)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish: so we're
|
|
supplying a missing piece to make the most of ssl</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
|
|
ask about feedback you've had, in your tours/talks</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> have to duck out now,
|
|
thanks Henry.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>danbri askes about the feedback on your tour,
|
|
and your priorities for the upcoming months</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish: similar
|
|
questions come up</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>mainly security based questions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re security, ... was
|
|
pleased that specialists seemed relatively untroubled by the
|
|
design</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>services such as foaf.me</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (foaf.me is back btw
|
|
:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>and openid4.me have really helped when trying
|
|
to see foaf+ssl</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>foaf+ssl is seen as a practical way of showing
|
|
the semantic web working</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>in a real world context that is a social
|
|
networking application</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>drupal dev's found it an easy way into
|
|
Semantic web tech</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>henry thinks we need more use cases for such
|
|
technology</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> bblfish, ARC2's
|
|
SPARQL is pretty good in my experience, but can only operate on
|
|
in-database (MySQL-only in fact) triple stores; not
|
|
in-memory.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>we need to have people using it, so that we
|
|
can identify issues with the foaf+ssl proposition</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ack?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>the european tour was very useful, giving
|
|
talks about the work really helped. Most talks at barcamps, and
|
|
non-traditional conferences, i.e. not that academic</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>webfinger</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>henry would love the swxg to support
|
|
foaf+ssl</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>?ack</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>?q</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> I logged into Jyte:
|
|
* Signed in as openid4.me/<a href=
|
|
"http://foaf.me/danbri2%23me">http://foaf.me/danbri2%23me</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> RDF vCard would be
|
|
nearly as useful.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>no offense to danbri</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yeah, it's a fair
|
|
question</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> foaf was designed to
|
|
be optional!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> original name was
|
|
rdfweb ... foaf was just the 'utility vocab'</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <- <a href=
|
|
"http://www.foaf-project.org/original-intro">http://www.foaf-project.org/original-intro</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>question regarding whether foaf was necessary
|
|
in the foaf+ssl</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> DNA checksum will
|
|
be useful when we create FOAF+Blood authentication.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>semantic web tech allows you to add more
|
|
namespaces</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> 'please spit on the
|
|
screen'</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> 'no, down a
|
|
bit...'</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>allowing you add more information to your foaf
|
|
file, as ontologies come about</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> GoodRelations - what
|
|
do you need, what do you have...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>danbri asked which properties you need to
|
|
implement a foaf+ssl</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>login</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> danbri: exactly
|
|
which properties (and classes) are needed when implementing a
|
|
foaf+ssl system</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> cert:identity,
|
|
rsa:public_exponent, rsa:modulus, cert:hex, cert:decimal.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>tinkster:</cite> a link to a cert:?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> so those 2
|
|
namespaces timbl dropped onto w3.org?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> <a href=
|
|
"http://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me">http://bblfish.net/people/henry/card#me</a>
|
|
WedID</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> No, the cert links
|
|
to the FOAF file. The FOAF file doesn't need to link to the
|
|
cert (it describes it via those properties).</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>for an example</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ah no my question was, could you give the full
|
|
URI for "cert:identity"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert">http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert</a>#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>got it</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>and <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa">http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa</a>#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> member
|
|
submission?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> Todo:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - add some classes
|
|
and relations for DSA</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish_</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert">http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert</a>#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - should this all be
|
|
in one file? Or should this be cut up a little? Say one file
|
|
for the general CERT ontology, and then files for RSA, DSA,
|
|
PGP, etc... Or perhaps it does not really matter?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - expand more on the
|
|
certification side of things</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - verify this by
|
|
security experts</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish_</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#%3E">http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/rsa#></a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - add more todos</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - owl2 has some
|
|
constructs for combined inverse functional properties.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> This may be useful
|
|
to use in defining an RSA key which is identified</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>wants a foaf:knows in bblfish's foaf file
|
|
:)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> by two numbers.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - when more stable
|
|
create rdf/xml version</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - also create html
|
|
version of the spec by using this as a template.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> - should comments
|
|
such as this be in html?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> we could publish a
|
|
swig note</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> or as caribou
|
|
mentions, a member sub (if you continue working for a
|
|
Member)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> here <a href=
|
|
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/foaf_ssl_adding_security_to">
|
|
http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/foaf_ssl_adding_security_to</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>what is the smallest thing needed for the spec
|
|
to be useful</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> danbri, 1 member
|
|
amongst the authors is sufficient</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Smallest thing to
|
|
be useful = a blog post, though a UN resolution would be
|
|
nice.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> UN :)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>danbri asks if Henry would be happy for the
|
|
work to be published via the W3C ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>henry would be happy for the work to be
|
|
published via the W3C</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Open Web
|
|
Foundation is a possibility too.</p>
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|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> graphical example
|
|
of the ontology (scroll down) <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ARPServlet?URI=http%3A%2F%2Ffoaf.me%2Fah1&PARSE=Parse+URI%3A+&TRIPLES_AND_GRAPH=PRINT_BOTH&FORMAT=PNG_EMBED">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ARPServlet?URI=http%3A%2F%2Ffoaf.me%2Fah1&PARSE=Parse+URI%3A+&TRIPLES_AND_GRAPH=PRINT_BOTH&FORMAT=PNG_EMBED</a></p>
|
|
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|
<p class='phone'>the scribe will have to go soon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> mischat, thanks for
|
|
scribing</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>np</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/12/09 17:21:31 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
Succeeded: s/WebId/WebID/
|
|
Found Scribe: mischat
|
|
Found Scribe: mischat
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: mischat
|
|
|
|
WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found, but dash separators were found.
|
|
Defaulting to -dashTopics option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
|
|
Possibly Present: AX Anita AnitaD MacTed OpenLink_Software P18 P32 Todo bblfish bblfish_ caribou cert cperey danbri hhalpin melvster mischa pchampin petef rreck timbl tinkster trackbot
|
|
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
|
|
<dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
|
|
<dbooth> Present+ amy
|
|
|
|
Found Date: 09 Dec 2009
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/09-swxg-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items:
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
|
|
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|