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560 lines
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560 lines
19 KiB
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 23 Sep
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2009</title>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>23 Sep 2009</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0129.html'>
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Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Conrad, Jack, Michael, Silvia, Raphael, Thierry, Yves,
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Erik</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>jackjansen</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1 admin</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">2 UC & requirements</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">3 specification</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">4, test cases</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item05">5 issues</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 23 September
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2009</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribe:
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jackjansen</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scrinenick:
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jackjansen</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> scribenick:
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jackjansen</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1 admin</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Minutes telecon:
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Minutes F2F:
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<a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
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and <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> minutes approved</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Thierry:</cite> action-111 is
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ongoing</p>
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<h3 id="item02">2 UC & requirements</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> 105 and 106 are ongoing,
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will try to do this afternoon</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-95?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-95 --
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Michael Hausenblas to review ALL UC with a mobile hat on and
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check whether these sufficiently cover the mobile usage -- due
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2009-09-02 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/95">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/95</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> on 95 there seem to be
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no issues with mobile</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: 95, no
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special issues for mobile</strong></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Side Conditions are
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in 2 documents: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-reqs/#side-conditions">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-reqs/#side-conditions</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> which document
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should it be?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> close ACTION-95</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-95 Review
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ALL UC with a mobile hat on and check whether these
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sufficiently cover the mobile usage closed</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Jack: I agree it
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should be in one document, no preference</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> tends to think its
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requirement doc</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p><a name=
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"action01" id="action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to move section to
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requirements doc only [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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find user - Raphael</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Silvia: about your
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suggestion of removing the side conditions section in one of
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the two document</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to move section to requirements
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doc only [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-113
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- Move section to requirements doc only [on Raphaël Troncy -
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due 2009-09-30].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... we will remove
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it from the spec and keep it in the requirements doc</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
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<h3 id="item03">3 specification</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-109?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-109 -- Erik
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Mannens to and Davy to write a paragraph in the documents to
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explain why we don't include this feature in the spec
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(rationale) based on the group analysis (impact both req and
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spec documents) -- due 2009-09-24 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/109">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/109</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Yes, Silvia, this
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is Erik action we are talking about</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> 109 will be done this
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week</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-110?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-110 --
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Silvia Pfeiffer to silvia to Draft a summary starting from her
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blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role
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of ? and #) -- due 2009-09-24 -- OPEN</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/110">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/110</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> 110 will be done
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this week</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... what's the
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status of this action?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> not done yet</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> 110 also this week</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> let's talk about range
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syntax</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0133.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0133.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I just a few minutes
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ago sent an update on that discussion</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
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"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0135.html">
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http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0135.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> does anyone have the
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specification that Yves pointed out will update the RFC to
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satisfy the need for other range types?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> if we are going to
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make a spec for time range units, i agree with silvia's
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proposal that both Range request header and Content-Range
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response header should use "time:npt" etc.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> if we start re-using
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parsers then we need to have the same syntax constraints in
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both</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> eg. commas have a
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special meaning in headers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> prefres to stay close to
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existing http syntax</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> we are not making
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any differences to existing http syntax</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> also syntax in different
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http headers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> agrees</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> the RFC has been
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reviewed: <a href=
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"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/ticket/85">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/ticket/85</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> one change was "make
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name of header value production for "Range" consistent with
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other headers"</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> proposed resolution:
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adopt proposal from Silvia, with both range and
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content-range<br />
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... using dimension:unit</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Range:
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<dimension>[':' <unit>] '=' <start time> -
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<end time></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> units not optional</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1 to no optional
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unit</p>
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<p class='phone'>+1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Range:
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<dimension> ':' <unit> '=' <start time> -
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<end time></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> same for
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Content-Range</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> why no optional
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unit?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> if any of the time
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are allowed to have frame offsets, the unit must be there</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> revised proposal: units
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not optional, same for content-range</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 for this
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proposal</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> silvia, if the
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offset is at the frame precision, then unit is mandatory</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> silvia, because
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machines are not humans</p>
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<p class='phone'>beep beep</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Silvia, no
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objection ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> no, I am not too
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worried about optional/non-optional unit in Range</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> just curious about
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reasoning :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: range
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and unit are non-optional in content-range and range
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headers</strong></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> btw: the draft RFC
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update is here <a href=
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"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p5-range-07#page-8">
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http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p5-range-07#page-8</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> next, should we use
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range for addressing tracks?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Server-parsed_Fragments">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Server-parsed_Fragments</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: what is your
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response about use of range for track?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Conrad wants new header,
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Silvia wants to reuse range</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> range header is mainly
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numeric</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I wonder why we need
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a different header for that - let me read up on the email
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thread</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> we will wait for raphael to
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return</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> so, Yves, do you
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agree about creating a new "Fragment:" header for tracks?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> you can't take an
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interval of track names, or describe the instance-length for
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Content-Range</p>
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<p class='phone'>We will continue.</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> you could if the
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tracks were ordered</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> then the
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"instance-length" could be the number of tracks</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> if we have it in range,
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would we need resolver to map track names to byte ranges?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> we need such a
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resolver for time, too</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: how do you
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request "t=20/20&track=audio" as a Range header, and how do
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you make the Content-Range response?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> anyone has any response to
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my question?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> multiple Range
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headers</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no opinion</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> multiple
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Content-Range response headers</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> multiple content
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ranges are allowed</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> there is a similarity to
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what we said about aspect ratio</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> is track as a
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#fragment really required?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> can you explain the
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similarity that you see?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> when a URI can be
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contructed with the relevantstarting/ending time</p>
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<p class='phone'>Should we table this until next week,
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silvia?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> having named tracks
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instead of numeric value adds unnecessary complexity that
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requires a resolver, or a way to enumerate all the tracks in
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order</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I do believe the
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track and also the id issues aren't fully understood yet</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I also believe that
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it is good to focus on solving the "time" specification and
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protocol procedure now, but the others can wait a bit</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> Yves, that relates
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to ISSUE-4</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> we could indeed keep
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discussing this on the mailing list until we have the spec for
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"time" finalised</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> table, discuss on mail or
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next week.</p>
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<h3 id="item04">4, test cases</h3>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> on action 93, it doesn't
|
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seem to affect anything</p>
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<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION:
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action-93, no test cases were affected</strong></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> close
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ACTION-93</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-93 Revisit
|
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the TC and see which are effected by the
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temporal-optional-comma-decision closed</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> remove test case 4, as
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aspect ratio is gone</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1</p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION on Michael to remove it</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
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|
find user - on</p>
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<p class='phone'>ACTION Michael to remove test case 4</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-114
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- Remove test case 4 [on Michael Hausenblas - due
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2009-09-30].</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> state semantics
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc</a></p>
|
|
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|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> on to action 108</p>
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|
|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: empty
|
|
means that it is defined but yields empty representation</p>
|
|
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|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> looking at naming of
|
|
test cases, empty versus undefined<br />
|
|
... is inconsistent, will clean it up<br />
|
|
... empty means - defined, but yields empty representation</p>
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|
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|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> two main
|
|
categories: defined or undefined</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> undefined means - no
|
|
range given</p>
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|
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|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> empty is
|
|
defined, but yields empty representation</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ACTION Michael to come up with categorization
|
|
of test cases wrt empty, undefined, etc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-115
|
|
- Come up with categorization of test cases wrt empty,
|
|
undefined, etc [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-09-30].</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item05">5 issues</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no idea on issue 6</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> table it until Raphael is
|
|
back</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Tves:</cite> let's adjourn the
|
|
meeting</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>ok, thanks!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Too many different syntaxes with rrsagent and
|
|
zakim:-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> yeah we should unify
|
|
those ;)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> trackbot, end
|
|
telcon</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
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|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to move
|
|
section to requirements doc only [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to move
|
|
section to requirements doc only [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
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|
<hr />
|
|
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|
<address>
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|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
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|
$Date: 2009/09/23 11:56:28 $
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</address>
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</pre>[End of <a href=
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"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
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scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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