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1161 lines
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1161 lines
45 KiB
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<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 17 Apr
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2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
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<h2>17 Apr 2009</h2>
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<p><a href=
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'http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda'>Agenda</a></p>
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<p>See also: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
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<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
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<div class="intro">
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<dl>
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<dt>Present</dt>
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<dd>Erik, Davy, Guillaume, Michael, Jack, Conrad, Raphael,
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Frank_(observer), Yves_(remote), Silvia_(remote), Dave</dd>
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<dt>Regrets</dt>
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<dt>Chair</dt>
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<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
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<dt>Scribe</dt>
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<dd>Raphael</dd>
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</dl>
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</div>
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<h2>Contents</h2>
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<ul>
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<li>
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<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
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<ol>
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<li><a href="#item01">1. Quick summary of First day
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meeting</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item02">2. Implementation Reports</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item03">Test Cases</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item04">4. Issues</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item05">5. Wrap Up</a></li>
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<li><a href="#item06">AOB</a></li>
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</ol>
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</li>
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<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
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</ul>
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<hr />
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<div class="meeting">
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='phone'> </p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 April
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2009</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, you miss some amazing food yesterday
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night, but you will see the pretty pictures taken :-)</p>
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<p class='phone'>you miss as well the longggggggggggggg drink
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session :-)</p>
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<p class='phone'>trackbot, start telecon</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Meeting: Media
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Fragments Working Group Teleconference</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 April
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2009</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> any changes to the
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agenda?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Meeting: Media
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Fragments WG, 3rd F2F Meeting - Barcelona (Spain)</p>
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<p class='phone'>yes Silvia, we will start with the session:
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Implementation Reports</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> then talk about the
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issues<br />
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... and finally about the test cases, where we need to kick off
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the work</p>
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<p class='phone'>Does that suit you ?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> sure</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, we are waiting for Jack, coming in a
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few minutes</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> and Yves, that he could
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phone us</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Raphael</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick:
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raphael</p>
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<h3 id="item01">1. Quick summary of First day meeting</h3>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we should have a picture
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representing the general structure of the media object, the H,
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H', K, D, etc. we talked about yesterday<br />
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... Can we do such a representation valid for most of the
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formats?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> yes, for the streamable
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formats<br />
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... I'm happy to take an action to draw such a schema</p>
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<p class='phone'>trackbot, status?</p><a name="action01" id=
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"action01"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to draw a representation of the
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general structure of a media resource, for streamable formats
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[recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-69
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- Draw a representation of the general structure of a media
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resource, for streamable formats [on Conrad Parker - due
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2009-04-24].</p>
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<h3 id="item02">2. Implementation Reports</h3>
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<p class='phone'>a) Davy wants to present and demo a software
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that allows to slide media files independently of the codec
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format</p>
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<p class='phone'>b) Jack has some reporting to do on its
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implemntation</p>
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<p class='phone'>c) Davy wants to talk about RTSP
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implementation</p>
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<p class='phone'>d) Conrad wants to report on his experience in
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Annodex</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, Davy will start with some slides that
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are coming</p>
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<p class='phone'>Davy going through a presentation</p>
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<p class='phone'>Slides at: <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/meetings/2009-04-16-f2f_barcelona/Adaptation_logic_for_(server-side)_media_fragment_extraction.pdf">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/meetings/2009-04-16-f2f_barcelona/Adaptation_logic_for_(server-side)_media_fragment_extraction.pdf</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> Slide 6, my PhD work is
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built on BSD content adaptation, using RDF<br />
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... based on a model for media bitstreams encoded in OWL<br />
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... Slide 7: Coding formats -> model for media bitstreams
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-> container formats<br />
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... Slide 8: model for media bitsreams represented as a set of
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classes and properties<br />
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... left part is the structure part, while the right part is
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more semantic<br />
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... Slide 9: shows the workflow<br />
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... Slide 10: shows an example, two tracks (audio, video)
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represented in the intermediary model<br />
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... assume there is a mapping between one particular codec
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format and this model<br />
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... Track selection, means selection of MediaBitstreams,
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straightforward<br />
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... Temporal selection, means selection of data blocks, based
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on their timestamps<br />
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... problem for Spatial clipping?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> it works only for scalable
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formats for Spatial Fragment</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> Slide 11: general
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architecture of the NinSuna platform<br />
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... the retrieval service is not yet compatible with the media
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fragment syntax, but we could adapt it<br />
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... Slide 12: two remarks, 1/ is the media needs to be
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'ingested', i.e. the intermediary model needs to be
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instantiated and 2/ currently client decides the output
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format</p>
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<p class='phone'>Time for demo</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> DON'T CLICK on
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the following link, now:</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
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"http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb">http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> what is the link
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for?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> silvia: that's
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davy's demo :)</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> note that the
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demo requires IE and Silverlight</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> ah, thanks</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> and VLC for the
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playback</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> raphael, no</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> we will put thata on
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another server</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> our demo can be found
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at <a href=
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"http://multimedialab.elis.ugent.be/NinSuna/">http://multimedialab.elis.ugent.be/NinSuna/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> is there a
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screencast?</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> erik?</p>
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<p class='phone'>A screencast will be made by the IBBT guys
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next week</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> ok - those
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screenshots at the demo site are good, too</p>
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<p class='phone'>I'm uploading the videos on my web page</p>
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<p class='phone'>cofffee break, we are back in 15 min</p>
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<p class='phone'>Videos will be at <a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/spool/video/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/spool/video/</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
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coffeeeeeeeeeeee</p>
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<p class='phone'>Silvia, we will resume</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> now we will listen to
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Jack</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I took the Python URL
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library<br />
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... I took this library and add some code of myself<br />
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... for parsing the media fragments part<br />
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... and here I discover all the issues discovered and reported,
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now fixed<br />
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... and then the problems started, I tried first with the file
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URL (local resource)<br />
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... problem is with synch on video/audio, should we do
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transcoding or not, etc.<br />
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... my goal was to first address:
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file://myvideo.mp4#t=10,20<br />
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... use ffmpeg for slicing the media<br />
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... it's hard to use it, the API changes frequently, but the
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functionalities are very good<br />
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... at the C level, it does what we want, but at the command
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level, it is meant to do transcoding</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> why not using the
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Python library G-streams, an API for ffmpeg?</p>
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<p class='phone'>URL lib for Python: <a href=
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"http://docs.python.org/library/urllib.html">http://docs.python.org/library/urllib.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>guillaume</cite>> Gstreamer Python
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binding library : <a href=
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"http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/modules/gst-python.html">http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/modules/gst-python.html</a></p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>guillaume</cite>> and GStreamer
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itself <a href=
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"http://www.gstreamer.net/">http://www.gstreamer.net/</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I will have a working
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version in a few more days, but it will transcode<br />
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... since this is what ffmepg does<br />
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... my plan is thus rather going through C++ implementation, to
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attack ffmeph low layers, and have no transcoding<br />
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... I can share the code that does the parsing of the
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fragment</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Anyone done or
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plans to do a client-side implementation of the parsing, etc.,
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say in JavaScript</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> if not, I might
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have some resources (not myself, for sure, but a PhD of mine)
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who could do something based on jQuery</p><a name="action02"
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id="action02"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to commit in CVS (code directory)
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his python code doing the parsing on client side of the media
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fragment [recorded in <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-70
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- Commit in CVS (code directory) his python code doing the
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parsing on client side of the media fragment [on Jack Jansen -
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due 2009-04-24].</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
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<strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to investigate whether he
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could have an implementation in Javascript that does the
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client-side media fragments implementation [recorded in
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<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">
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http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-71
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- Investigate whether he could have an implementation in
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Javascript that does the client-side media fragments
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implementation [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-04-24].</p>
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<p class='phone'>Conrad will now report on his implementation
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experience</p>
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<p class='phone'>Davy, first report on RTSP implementation</p>
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<p class='phone'><a href=
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"http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/Talks/2009-03-06-mozcamp/#(3)">
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http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/Talks/2009-03-06-mozcamp/#(3)</a></p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> RTSP implementation wiki
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page, <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/RTSP_implementation">
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http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/RTSP_implementation</a><br />
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... quick test, I have an implementation of the media fragment
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over the RTSP protocol<br />
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... it works for track and temporal selection<br />
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... first communication is the Describe, and the server answers
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which track is available, etc.<br />
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... then for each track, we have a Setup<br />
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... so we can have easily a track selection in RTSP<br />
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... next command is the play command, where we can specify the
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temporal clipping<br />
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... I don't remember which units is supported, but for sure npt
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and smpte<br />
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... again, I have an implementation that parses the media
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fragment, and generates a PLAY command<br />
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... i do not yet cover the whole grammar of the media fragment,
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so far just, t= and track=<br />
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... implemented in C<br />
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... I'm working on covering the whole grammar</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> my (silly?) idea, embed
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VLC in a web page<br />
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... implement on client side, in the browser, the possibility
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to write down a media fragment URI (rtsp), use the code of Davy
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to generate the good Describe, Setup and Play commands<br />
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... send that through VLC and get the results back, using the
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VLC plugin in the browser</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> should be doable<br />
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... my issue is with track selection, how do you know the name
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of the track</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> this is related to the
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issue raised by Silvia, <a href=
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"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4</a><br />
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... what I come accoss, is that often, you want not 1 track,
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but 2 tracks, or all tracks except one<br />
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... not very convenient with our current scheme?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> suggestion to add a comma
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separation, such as: #track='track1,track2,track3'</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> or event having a minus</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> the naming of the
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tracks is up to the container format - some allow it, others
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don't</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Scribenick:
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mhausenblas</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> for example
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QuickTime has chapter tracks that should be addressable in the
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given way with #track</p>
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<p class='phone'>;)</p>
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<p class='phone'>Conrad has essentially said everything
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yesterday, now no new stuff</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> Jack: mentions that
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naming of tracks is decided by author and they create the
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URL</p>
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<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> Conrad: mentions
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that with Accept-Language it should be possible to leave the
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track selection for languages to the server</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> conrad ok for you to
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implement it based on # rather than ?</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> will try to implement the
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hash part as well</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> agree, after the first
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step both # and ? have the same procedure<br />
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... conrad would you implement the 'missing link' using the
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HTTP Link: header draft</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> yes, I like Yves idea
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using it, gonna try</p>
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<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> Yves, silvia any
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|
question?</p>
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|
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<h3 id="item03">Test Cases</h3>
|
|
|
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<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick: erik</p>
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|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> give a set of URI's and
|
|
describe what should be expected</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> rather have a set of
|
|
simple cases to start with</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> parsing URI is more or
|
|
less done (via the code I contributed), so it's more how a
|
|
cient parse que URI and act based on that</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> really stress on what
|
|
the outcome is<br />
|
|
... try to make it as automatic as possible</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> some temporal testing
|
|
should at least be able to be done automatically (cfr. via
|
|
using subtitles)<br />
|
|
... some manual video-inspection still has to be done</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> we could add time
|
|
range validation to <a href=
|
|
"http://validator.annodex.org/">http://validator.annodex.org/</a>
|
|
:-)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> because we use half-open
|
|
intervals</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://validator.annodex.org/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fia331343.us.archive.org%2F2%2Fitems%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead.ogv%3Ft%3D10%2C20">
|
|
http://validator.annodex.org/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fia331343.us.archive.org%2F2%2Fitems%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead%2Fnight_of_the_living_dead.ogv%3Ft%3D10%2C20</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>michael (on blackboard)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>on UA:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> erik, I wanted
|
|
to say "because we use half-open intervals we can also do some
|
|
automatic testing on video/audio"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>two test cases: URI resolving & Generate
|
|
HTTP request (also see photo)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>on Server:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>from HTTP request to HTTP response</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>back on UA:</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>comment from jack: this is testing from User
|
|
Expectation ... shouldn't we just test our Spec?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> we need to test if
|
|
it's feasible to get interoperable implementations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> so we test the spec,
|
|
but also (parts of) implementations as well</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> we won't test that
|
|
implementations are 100% correct</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> we just test 100%
|
|
coverage of the spec by interoperable implementations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> try the top-down
|
|
approach (opposed to Jack's proposal of doing it bottom-up)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> in the end both should
|
|
come up with the same results though</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>(human in the loop) on UA</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> on the last step
|
|
("human in the loop") we should document the expected behaviour
|
|
of a UA: that the first frame rendered is the first frame of
|
|
the interval, that the video image is not broken (ie. the
|
|
decoder has been primed with the previous i-frame)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>TestCase 0: URI#</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>-> == URI == entire resource</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> at very least for every
|
|
dimension we should define all the test cases where we get back
|
|
the whole resource & also the ones where we get back an
|
|
empty resource</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>guillaume</cite>> see <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/</a>
|
|
for example</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>guillaume</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://torrez.us/code/rdfa-js/tests/">http://torrez.us/code/rdfa-js/tests/</a>
|
|
and <a href=
|
|
"http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/">http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> there are tools online that
|
|
check HTTP responses</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> I agree we just need
|
|
to test that the headers we cared for are ok</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> we should test our extra
|
|
HTTP-headers for example ... not the complete HTTP stack</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> practically ... just
|
|
test specific HTTP-headers with name & their possible
|
|
values</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Jack & Conrad: tests are most easily done
|
|
on server</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>guillaume</cite>> see <a href=
|
|
"http://wiki.csswg.org/test/harness">http://wiki.csswg.org/test/harness</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> two test harnesses ...
|
|
one for client & one for server</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>conrad & jack: both test harnesses can be
|
|
scripted</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> I can be
|
|
scripted, but the qeustion is: do I do what you
|
|
expect.....</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to setup template for test
|
|
cases on wiki [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-72
|
|
- Setup template for test cases on wiki [on Michael Hausenblas
|
|
- due 2009-04-24].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> initial 10 test cases
|
|
... test case 0 & empty/entire resource & only temporal
|
|
and npt-units</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> if we are testing a
|
|
client, the base uri is the uri of the harness</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> if we are testing a
|
|
server, we need to provide media and test fragment requests to
|
|
that media</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> why not only within test
|
|
harness just the fragment (not the whole URI) to make it
|
|
automatically testable</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> what about RTSP?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> we do end-to-end test for
|
|
multiple protocols</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> how was the test suite
|
|
handled within SMIL?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> SMIL 2.0 test suite was xml
|
|
& then parsed by bits of perl/python<br />
|
|
... then put into HTML forms, again some script processing
|
|
& afterwards put into a document ... all testing was done
|
|
manually :(<br />
|
|
... please, choose the right media to run the tests!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> invite zakim
|
|
#mediafrag</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> trackbot, start
|
|
telecon</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Meeting: Media
|
|
Fragments Working Group Teleconference</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 April
|
|
2009</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> scribenick:
|
|
raphael</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Wrapping up the test cases</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> have a test case with a
|
|
#foo fragment<br />
|
|
... on a non-media resource, if the behaviour is as
|
|
expected</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Dave:</cite> test whether the
|
|
video.mp4#t=10 (as used by Google video) still works as
|
|
expected</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> we should completement
|
|
with more negative test cases</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item04">4. Issues</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/open">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/open</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Issue 3: Michael, <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> in RFC3986, the
|
|
semantics of the fragment is per design not defined<br />
|
|
... together with the mime-type, one can learn what the
|
|
semantics means<br />
|
|
... example, HTML, with its registration<br />
|
|
... but this is not true for most of the media types<br />
|
|
... to register at IANA and IETF the media fragment syntax</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> this is not possible, mp4
|
|
has already its post-hash syntax<br />
|
|
... we could write a cover letter, explaining who we are, and
|
|
recommend to the mime-type owners what they should register</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> there are plenty, is
|
|
this possible at all?<br />
|
|
... it will take too much time</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Member only link: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/02/06-swcg-minutes.html#item03">http://www.w3.org/2009/02/06-swcg-minutes.html#item03</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> proposal:
|
|
media/fragment</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
|
|
media/fragment+video</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
|
|
media/fragment+audio</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
|
|
media/fragment+image</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> it's a hack to use the
|
|
Accept header for that<br />
|
|
... we need to do a media specific documentation</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> problem, MPEG-21 has done
|
|
that for MPEG resources, why they would change and adopt our
|
|
scheme?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> we have no authority, we
|
|
could just convince them with existing implementations, and
|
|
deployment</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I need to take my action
|
|
seriously and come back with figures<br />
|
|
... how many mime type owners we need to talk with ?<br />
|
|
... how many mime-types will be affected?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> looking at IANA database,
|
|
it is very hard to guess who is the owner</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> my method, look at all
|
|
the mime-type concerned (audio/*, video/*, image/*) and look
|
|
for each whether they have a semantics for the hash<br />
|
|
... if NOT, no problem<br />
|
|
... if YES, then, identify the owner and evaluate the
|
|
impact<br />
|
|
... evaluate impact meaning detecting clash</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> we should talk to the AVT
|
|
group in IETF<br />
|
|
... charter: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/avt-charter.html">http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/avt-charter.html</a><br />
|
|
|
|
... group home page: <a href=
|
|
"http://tools.ietf.org/wg/avt/">http://tools.ietf.org/wg/avt/</a><br />
|
|
|
|
... I think Dave Singer is somehow associated to this group</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Dave:</cite> can you confirm the
|
|
asumption of Conrad just above?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Issue 4: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/4</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>dsinger</cite>> I am looking for
|
|
the assumption</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Are you associated to some extent to the AVT
|
|
group in IETF ?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I feel the Issue 4 is
|
|
mixing two things</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>a) the fact of selecting various tracks, or
|
|
all tracks except 1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>b) pre-selecting track names</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> for a) I think it should go
|
|
to the version 2 of Media Fragments<br />
|
|
... because we will end up soon to a presentation language
|
|
behind the hash<br />
|
|
... the problem is we cannot measure what amount of work it
|
|
represents, nor to the people we need to talk too</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/ROE">http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/ROE</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> why not doing like RTSP
|
|
...</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> this is the ROE way</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> we assume there is a
|
|
mechanism for which the client can have a description of the
|
|
media items</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> clarification, the
|
|
retrieval of the description is not in the media fragments, it
|
|
is done before</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/video/">http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/video/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> so it includes lots of
|
|
RFCs (not easy to republish)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: re
|
|
issue 3, I mean it is always good to write the cover letter</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ... just a
|
|
matter of how the odds are that we can convince them, looking
|
|
at the sheer number of potential clashes</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ... where a
|
|
clash is defined as a media type that defines frag
|
|
semantics</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Yves, hopefully, there will be 0 or 1 RFC
|
|
impacted</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> we really care when there
|
|
is a clash</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ... and these
|
|
semantics contradict with ours</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> indeed</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no, the syntax will not
|
|
change<br />
|
|
... we pass verbatim the track="value" to the server, and this
|
|
is up to the server, capabilities of container formats</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> I agree with you<br />
|
|
... I think what we can get is just no audio or no video</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I dont know what get
|
|
'audio' means in the general case</p><a name="action05" id=
|
|
"action05"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to change the phrasing of the
|
|
issue 4 (just audio/video)? [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-73
|
|
- Change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? [on
|
|
Conrad Parker - due 2009-04-24].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Issue 6: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/6">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/6</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> the issue comes during the
|
|
implementation trial, where I happily do some transcoding</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> my point was... "it is
|
|
fuzzy"</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +q to ask for
|
|
sanity check</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> I can point to...
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p6-cache-06#section-3.6">
|
|
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p6-cache-06#section-3.6</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> yes, thus the action-62,
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/62">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/62</a>
|
|
now associated</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> Warning: 214
|
|
Transformation applied</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> (note that is is also
|
|
in rfc2616)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> 4.3.2 Receipt of
|
|
Warning: 214 Transformation Applied</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> If the response
|
|
includes a Warning: 214 Transformation Applied HTTP header,
|
|
proxies must not apply further transformation.</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Proposal from Yves: not really implemented,
|
|
but we could use the warning header to warn the UA there has
|
|
been some transcoding</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> oh proxies can do
|
|
further transformations</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> mhausenblas, you
|
|
wanted to ask for sanity check</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> it just warns the
|
|
client that there was a transformation somewhere in the
|
|
chain</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> i was quoting from
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/">http://www.w3.org/TR/ct-guidelines/</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: is
|
|
this within our scope?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ... would like
|
|
to see WG saying: YES!</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> should we care, as a
|
|
standardisation group, whether there is transcoding or not</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> for formats that do
|
|
not encode presentation in-points, we could add an HTTP
|
|
response header to inform the client of the presentation time
|
|
at which to enable rendering</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>Issue 5: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/5">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/5</a></p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> this is just a heads up,
|
|
for us<br />
|
|
... we must remember if the server has done some clipping, it
|
|
must send also the original w/h to the client<br />
|
|
... in the case where the spatial cropping has been asked in
|
|
terms of %</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> my concern, are we
|
|
stretching too much the definition of a fragment, when the
|
|
fragment (= spatial clipping) has no single bytes in common
|
|
from the original resource<br />
|
|
... I hope this will be answered by Yve's action to TAG<br />
|
|
... perhaps, we will say, this is not anymore a fragment, and
|
|
recommend to use the ? rather than the # for this use case</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>Frank:</cite> this is an analogy of what
|
|
is said for spatial but not said for temporal</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item05">5. Wrap Up</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> scribenick: davy</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>raphael on the blackboard</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> uc & req doc will be
|
|
split<br />
|
|
... use cases and requirements and side conditions will be in a
|
|
separate document<br />
|
|
... technologies survey in another document</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>guillaume:</cite> uc & req should be
|
|
first, then side conditions</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> historically, side
|
|
conditions were first</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> put survey in the uc
|
|
& req doc</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>proposal:</cite> uc & req doc and
|
|
the technologies survey in one doc?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>guillaume:</cite> duplicate side
|
|
conditions (both in working note and REC docs)</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> +1</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> in the rec, side
|
|
conditions will be specified more formally</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> spec will be rec</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> wg note as well for
|
|
UC&req&survey</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> uc & req will be
|
|
working note?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>all:</cite> working note</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> should <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/</a>
|
|
be in</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael and erik to request feedback
|
|
of other groups such as SYMM, SVG, HTML + WHATWG, WAI, MAWG,
|
|
TAG, MobileWeb, TimedText, ... [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
|
|
find user - raphael</p><a name="action07" id="action07"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik and Raphael to request feedback
|
|
of other groups such as SYMM, SVG, HTML + WHATWG, WAI, MAWG,
|
|
TAG, MobileWeb, TimedText [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-74
|
|
- And Raphael to request feedback of other groups such as SYMM,
|
|
SVG, HTML + WHATWG, WAI, MAWG, TAG, MobileWeb, TimedText [on
|
|
Erik Mannens - due 2009-04-24].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> planning for the next 6
|
|
months<br />
|
|
... second public wd within 2-3 months</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> 2nd wd in
|
|
september</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> if people do not provide
|
|
feedback, we should find out why<br />
|
|
... Goal is to have a 2nd WD early in september</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> will the document already
|
|
be split?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> yes, what about test
|
|
cases?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> would leave it in
|
|
the wiki for a while</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> current policy regarding
|
|
editorship<br />
|
|
... which policy should we have?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> list everyone in the
|
|
group or list everyone contributed a chapter</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> if someone writes
|
|
something in the rec, then he/she is an editor<br />
|
|
... have two editors, then the contributers</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> then we can assume
|
|
that everyone is a contributor</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> yes, all the WG
|
|
members at least</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> looking at other w3c
|
|
docs, they use editors and a number of contributors</p>
|
|
|
|
<h3 id="item06">AOB</h3>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Raphael: proposal
|
|
on the blackboard is to have a number of editors (chairs ? team
|
|
contact? others?) and all group members as
|
|
contributors</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to split the document and
|
|
setup the diff feature of xmlspec [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
|
|
find user - raphael</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> trackbot,
|
|
status?</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Semantics">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Semantics</a></p><a name="action09"
|
|
id="action09"></a>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
|
|
<strong>ACTION:</strong> raphaël to split the document and
|
|
setup the diff feature of xmlspec [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-75
|
|
- Split the document and setup the diff feature of xmlspec [on
|
|
Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-04-24].</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> [adjourned]</p>
|
|
|
|
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> BIG THANKS for the
|
|
local organizers</p>
|
|
|
|
</div>
|
|
|
|
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
|
|
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to change
|
|
the phrasing of the issue 4 (just audio/video)? [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to draw a
|
|
representation of the general structure of a media resource, for
|
|
streamable formats [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik and Raphael
|
|
to request feedback of other groups such as SYMM, SVG, HTML +
|
|
WHATWG, WAI, MAWG, TAG, MobileWeb, TimedText [recorded in
|
|
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action07">
|
|
http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to commit in
|
|
CVS (code directory) his python code doing the parsing on client
|
|
side of the media fragment [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to
|
|
investigate whether he could have an implementation in Javascript
|
|
that does the client-side media fragments implementation
|
|
[recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to setup
|
|
template for test cases on wiki [recorded in <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael and erik
|
|
to request feedback of other groups such as SYMM, SVG, HTML +
|
|
WHATWG, WAI, MAWG, TAG, MobileWeb, TimedText, ... [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to split
|
|
the document and setup the diff feature of xmlspec [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphaël to split
|
|
the document and setup the diff feature of xmlspec [recorded in
|
|
<a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />
|
|
|
|
<br />
|
|
[End of minutes]<br />
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<address>
|
|
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
|
|
$Date: 2009/04/17 19:35:59 $
|
|
</address>
|
|
|
|
<div class="diagnostics">
|
|
<hr />
|
|
|
|
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
|
|
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
|
|
<pre>
|
|
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
|
|
Check for newer version at <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
|
|
|
|
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/<a href=
|
|
"http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb/NN">http://respighi.elis.ugent.be/NinSunaWeb/NN</a>
|
|
WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/http:\/\/respighi.elis.ugent.be\/NinSunaWeb/NN/g
|
|
Succeeded: s/aprse/parse/
|
|
Succeeded: s/ohw/how/
|
|
Succeeded: s/gree/agree/
|
|
Succeeded: s/: can be both/: both test harnesses can be/
|
|
Succeeded: s/then put into/... then put into/
|
|
Succeeded: s/req docs/REC docs/
|
|
Found Scribe: Raphael
|
|
Inferring ScribeNick: raphael
|
|
Found ScribeNick: raphael
|
|
Found ScribeNick: mhausenblas
|
|
Found ScribeNick: erik
|
|
Found ScribeNick: raphael
|
|
Found ScribeNick: davy
|
|
ScribeNicks: raphael, mhausenblas, erik, davy
|
|
|
|
WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
|
|
Old list: Mediafrag Silvia Yves
|
|
New list: Mediafrag Yves
|
|
|
|
Default Present: Mediafrag, Yves
|
|
Present: Erik Davy Guillaume Michael Jack Conrad Raphael Frank_(observer) Yves_(remote) Silvia_(remote) Dave
|
|
Agenda: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda</a>
|
|
Found Date: 17 Apr 2009
|
|
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
|
|
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/17-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
|
|
People with action items: conrad erik jack l michael rapha raphael
|
|
|
|
</pre>[End of <a href=
|
|
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
|
|
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
|
|
</div>
|
|
</body>
|
|
</html>
|